[Music] and as you might imagine that a lot of the questions that were related to either one of the three were really similar over the different talks that we had this morning so we really hope that the speakers might also respond to each other to give an except a little separate view on on a certain topic let's start with the question to mark Andre and many of you asked the question about how can we basically manipulate the microbiota in the gut please go out yes there was quite a bunch of questions related to that in many approaches but to be clear its ability parametric problem and there are many factors that have to be taken into account one obvious one is the genetic of the individual which means that different selected lines will not reply the same way and I think you will at some point discuss a bit that the second thing is the environment coming to the environment and elaborating on one question of a septic environment I think that a septic environment while the environment matters but a septic environment is a nonsense it is a nonsense for a microbiologist show me something a septic and we may discuss it until then let's consider that now see is a septic so it doesn't exist simply it may be sufficiently hamdi to allow anything to get in and that's what we don't wish we wish to select what's there so to select what's there let's install the people we want to be there so I think that in the future we have to think of what level of contamination of the environment we wish to add a shield against anything coming in in the place where we have the animals genetic environment and finally the Hanlin I see the indirect handling of the microbiota for lines the first one you know it is probiotic I introduced something I want second one is probiotic I introduced molecules that will favor one or several strains I wish to favor and so I either inoculated the microbe or I give something to eat to the microbe I target you also know by the way that sometimes there is it's time called symbiotic the way of using bows there are very nice experiments showing at least in mice that by adding a bacterium and what's this bacterium is specifically eating you install it forever as long as you provide the food but let's go to the third one I would like to insist that most of the so-called probiotic effect we face in many animals are not probiotic effects I call them so dogmatic but you mental not like that for example when you're eating eating yeast Saccharomyces boulardii after antibiotic taking yeast do not install in your body they don't so they are not probiotic in that sense that you're not giving something that will be part of the microbiota you are just putting something that is disturbing the microbiota in a way that it doesn't persist but makes it functioning better so it's intermediate between a probiotic and a probiotic i calypso WT call it as you want it's also the reason why we we have to eat yogurt the bacteria will not install but the regulator of micro biota in a positive way by making a booty right producing microbial microbes more abundant probiotic probiotic so-called pseudo beauty but forth and most importantly the question of how to unhandled a community has been addressed for 50 years already it's not on microbes it just on ecology it's it's called ecology of restoration or management of ecosystems and we are really facing that you need to know to reuse what was done for microbes microorganism into mike to make rock microbes from microbes to microbes and we have now in restoration ecology or conservation ecology very good knowledge of what is called systemic approach when you want a specific flower species to stay at a point you are not make putting seeds of this flower if it's a natural ecosystem you are not pretty putting fertilizers you are just in sorry to finish on that you are just making the ecosystem running in a way that this species has a place there okay good thank you and funny you could we hear you so what the question so the question is that you also should relate what we discussed on this aspect so particularly what what how could we manipulate the microbiota and then finally coming up because it's nice that all three speakers respond to this particular question how could you manipulate microbiota what are the specific tools that we could use within the poultry industry to see that a bird may be different types of birds as we discussed or may be different ages how you could respond to that one okay okay so I know that there are many different current commercially available levers to mother let's get microbiota and the thing is we know some will have some insights about what they do to the microbiota but it's mad it might be too slight we know that they have some effects on bacteria but some bacterial groups but from one experiment to another even in this experimental setting it can change so bacteria are favorable to productivity FCR our house can change from one experiment to another so that's why I presented a research from metagenomics because I think it can help us i identifying the real key functional keys in the ecosystems explaining why these levels can affect the microbiota so it can give us insight as to the functionalities and the gut microbiota and maybe it's the real thing to to observe that the bacterial species in themselves but rather the functions they achieve and I think the targets will agree with me on this point Mike would you could you address this question sure let me let me address it by three points if I can remember all three the first point I think it's very very important is that we are talking exclusively today about bacteria we've ignored in terms of the chicken the fungi which were big component the first time and we ignored the viruses the viruses that are in intestine are Faja 99% of what's there is a Fache which grows in the bacteria which changes the bacterias metabolism and until we get a better handle on the other organisms within the microbiota we are probably going to have very difficult time of doing exactly what these question is how can we manipulate the microbiota to our benefit we have to get a little bit more information about the microbiome as a whole a couple of questions that fill in here that probably answers help answer this there was a question about our probiotics I think the answer are they wasted and I think that's a great question because there are specific times that probiotics would be incredibly important we heard this morning multiple times at hatch we want to get the the good bucks in as soon as possible that's true if we wait to four or five six seven days just again I don't mean to offend the probiotic companies out there but what damn good are we doing when there's a trillion bucks per gram of tissue and we're given a million bugs in their feet it's not getting there another time to be given it we get the feed change the feed change changes the microbiota dramatically from one day to the next that 24-hour period after feed change huge change in microbiota that would be a great time to give a probiotic and then the last time to give a probiotic to me and we have any thought about is that feed what's wrong before we may go to market give a probiotic in the water so that it helps protect not only their weather in the house with the stress effects as the animals being transported to the processing plant the other point I wanted to bring up was there is a question and I think it fits here as well is about the dietary and nutritional benefits and specifically the questions were on protein keep in mind the dogma has always been that the nutrition or the nutrients in a diet are going directly to the munis ponds that's not the case hopefully I got the point across the day that you are feeding the microbiota which then signal the immune response and it's important to keep that in mind protein does not go to the proteins an immune response protein goes into microbiota which changes it to amino acids which the immune response can use so the question of do we use protein or amino acids now that's a great question and I don't have an answer to amino acids are gonna give prime more direct effect to the cells immune response so hopefully I add a little bit more to discussion of those points you would like to respond to them to commit on these aspects yes so I agree that from applied perspectives we might not have now the right Universal biomarkers forget health because we don't know exactly what is good health because the market value is very complex and dynamic and we need to answer very a lot of research questions but we can make sure that word we see good let's say good microbes from the tart at hatch and we can ensure that okay thank you thank you for the answer and now it's a set of the questions for for you funny so we can continue as we were trying to combine all the many questions which we receive from all the groups in let's say three main questions and the the first one which was actually appearing and and I think we're in if maybe later all of you could address it a little bit announcer if if we have how far we are from getting a standard of something what we can call a healthy bird from the microbial community point of view from the microbiota and and what kind of biomarkers should we use and if we can construct any kind of the toolbox which could be used to give that let's say a standard if any any kind of this this kind of standard actually exists or can be defined well from our talks this morning I think that you got that ecosystems are very complex that interactions between nutrition host genetics microbiota are very complex sauce ten dots are very difficult to obtain that for sure and we still need research however there are some biomarkers not Universal ones but there are some so I can cite you a papers reviewed that have been published some of them recently about biomarkers that could be investigated for their relation with gut has and it's not a linear microbiota biomarkers but more general ones like a blood value markers and so on for instance thank you Mike can you address it to that's obviously the universal question as far as I'm concerned we have not found any definitive or consistent forget definitively we have not found any consistent marker immunological marker that would allow us to say that these birds are had a healthy gut it we just haven't made that Association much less a correlation between what is good and bad and so the that it is an eternal question obviously there are there there's papers in the literature that said some biomarkers that deal with immunity and they're not incorrect they're just not consistent and a big part of that is the environmental conditions that the animals are in obviously an experimental control condition is gonna give us a totally different set of markers than something out in the field it's it's just not there there's no one that can come up right now and say we have a few even a few markers that we can use it's just not there mark like make a comment of course I cannot comment in much detail for for poultry science but let me speak of the viewpoint of soil microbiota and plant micro biota you know how have some companies offering as marker of the health of the system a kind of metagenomics or metabolic OD'ing approach not only it's bit difficult to interpret that when you receive your excel file of 30,000 lines but also I think no one can really say what what what's behind so I am not I don't think that the molecular tools is really something for tomorrow but what is more amazing and I would like to join what you said at the very end of your own of your talk is that we don't care really or choose because we know that in in mountain vector your microbial world functions are running around by horizonte or gene transfer we need a functional classification and maybe some functional groups are required in the microbiota to get to health but we also have to determine probably very broadly classify function what functions do we want I mean today we've heard and we've heard throughout the meeting feed conversion we want to improve the performance of the bird yes that's the ultimate goal but can that be used as a biomarker not during the growth of the animal I don't think there's so much variation going on because the environment I don't think we can say let's look at seven days 1421 and we're gonna be able to say yes this is the function it's going to take a lot more we're gonna need the information that dr. Klein just provides and then put it together with our immune data we can start looking at functions at the gut level and how that affects physiology so that maybe we can find a blood marker maybe we find a fecal marker but we need more information and we need to talk amongst each other a little bit more so that the information is not one way that it's really across there different lines okay right so again we have some questions still to be answered too funny and but the one question here which also arise in many groups is how we can use the Zika as a picture of the whole bird so basically if the Zika can be used as a biomarker and give us the answer about what is happening in the ileum or crop the other parts and and of course all what it's actually what we see in excreta also and then how it goes together with the age of the birds so the development all whole body including the Indy gastrointestinal tract okay so in our experiment presented here which was to study the secret compartment because it's probably the one with the more diverse and richest microbiota and it's also the place with more interactions between microbes and host the more interactions with host immunity in particular so in relation with gut health it is relevant it does not mean that there is nothing taking place in other parts of the digestive tract in fact there's the treetops option occurring in the ileum and jejunum and we know that markers there are different from microbes found and the secant so there are specific questions research questions functional quenching questions to address in relation with these segments that not what we did but there are publications which did that and so we can't use the seeker as a proxy for the dijanna or ileum functional questions actually maybe because we are running a little bit out of time what would be nice now for the audience is that you just have in one or two or maybe three sentences that take home motion message for the audience they're all poultry producers over here nutritionists what should they do tomorrow or the day after tomorrow when they're back in their offices oh we start with the lady we need to collaborate with companies to benefit from your products and to work in production conditions because the microbiome is highly dynamic and we need to be as close as possible to the real conditions found in a field right now I go back to my first slide and bring up the fact that as long as you have a bio secure facility you are doing everything you can do right now most of the birds the Oilers are fine they're healthy we're doing okay anything you add is not hurting the bird if you want to add a probiotic edit if you want to add an essential oil or something edit if that makes your end product give you a couple more sense of bird then do it we're not harming the birds none of these places these companies next door are hurting your birds okay so until research catches up a little bit more you are doing fine we have healthy birds even the threat of taking away antibiotic growth promoters has not caused us to have major major issues it's amazing how the birds will adapt to what we provide them mark on really well exactly as for mike rizzo inoculum or rises rise of bacteria or leaf bacteria in a clue we need the industry that is there is a lot of research to know where to put what in which at which time there's a lot of research to be done that will never be done at the University only so it's great to have you here photos were from the industry because we need that but we need that seriously we need products for which I have a list of when where to apply it what are the potential negative effect because nothing is perfect nothing is only positive so I list exactly as for medication I need the list of the problems that I may encounter and probably we need a recommendation making clear what we call a probiotic and what are the features in it they are linked to a technical knowledge of what's there okay thank you we are almost coming to an end here and it's nice to see that the three of you organized basically your own panel discussion which is very nice you are very interrelated I think so what we were today was that we are talking about a complex functional dialogue and you were actually doing that as well during this this meeting we were very happy to have those three speakers that are so closely related in the topic that I could really fulfill the role of getting into another in in each other field quite easily be aware that they are still here you are going to the lunch but you can easily approach them attack them so to say and I hope you will join us by giving them a big hand and thank them [Applause]