I see the sign from the broadcast that we have a lot of questions arriving will try to answer to most of them and for Zeus we are not we will not answer to today or immediately you will get a response through a channel so to start I suggest to take the first question from the broadcaster yeah could you rank anti-nutritional factors of feed from the most to the least important so could you rank a young teen nutrition factor from the feed from the most to the least important maybe your clue Derek to start with well it's been de natal on on the animal but but at least one factor that's very important particularly for for viscous sensitive animals that that is the solid part of the fiber of actions particularly related to to poultry and so on then there will also be the the phytates but there may be other around the table here we saw a better series of of ants on that questions but at least that's true for me very important factors maybe I can complete oh yeah I can complete maybe for pigs maybe but I think the greatest factor that from my point of view of a big fizzy is dietary fiber I mean viscosity is not really a major problem there the Dutch tract is totally different so the i2e fiber and its complexity remains the major challenge to the nutritionist and when you think about P yeah dining for picture from Reuters I think dietary fiber is there but this might be different under the field with provement of the range of improvement might be also very dependent on ingredients on enzymes fermentation and so and so clearly the iti fiber is a common factor but in Port William I do the photos I think Mike you know should also my classes in sure I think the phytase concept and what we've seen with higher levels is a testament to how much of an anti nutrient factor phytic acid is for the bird and I think we need to look at the sugars and you know the non-starch polysaccharides and in some of the whole sea meals that we don't utilize as well as the other species and how to unlock that portion is the anti-nutritional factors would be the top top 2 on my list more questions from the web I think on that aspect so maybe the next question what is a reachable global feed digestibility or in other terms how far could will reduce the indigestible fractions or indigestible fractions who wants to start maybe with what you show shown before but adult and growing pigs it gives some space at least give some yeah clearly I think our data in pigs indicate that you may have some inevitable losses in young animals but this energy loss is in the next grader can be very much reduced by giving the same feed to other pigs so that means that the potential of the feed depends very much the type of animal and the work of the disease truck so what what occurs in in the other pigs is that the digesters stay much longer in the tract does you track and that gives more time to degrade into ferment fermented the nutrients so so the idea there is that you may change or we may improve even in young animals the energy value or the energy agility by helping the pig to some extent to the grade is the nutrients which are problematic and many the dietary fiber fraction so clearly preserved how much do you think we could all how much it could we'll reach in fact in anticipation I think the value we we measure in other pigs which are fed relatively low feeding levels in comparison with the digestive capacity represents to some extent may be a maximum so could it prove a little bit further even with enzymes in other things I don't think the improvement will be very negligible or not very important so the target or what we achieve in other things is a good example of the potential energy value of a big field so you have not the same situation in in poetry because there are you have the Dodge truck is different and not much fermentation capacity and so in most of the digester and so there is plenty of room there for improving the - Schmidty by external supplementation of different substances who wants to add some comments in that I think he yeah how much could could we your challenge our birds to get more from their feet that's all we want I think I think we need to research it and I think we need to focus on the latter periods if you look at the the jest of capacity early on its there's so many enzymes and poultry they were lacking the lipase even the trypsin but we don't we don't typically focus on this starter period because we're gonna optimize and we're gonna push and we're gonna set up the bird but dr. noble' really I think it was a good take-home message for the different age of the the animals are looking at in poultry and we have a tremendous opportunity in the last a few phases with the energy requirement increasing to improve that undigested fraction as well as a amino acids thanks Mike next question may be from the broadcast a beyond Fayette and the specific compounds from soy what anti-nutritional factors can you considered important in corn with soy diets that's addressed to maybe include a Reiko or microwave you know beyond fight that and the specific compound from soil you mentioned the raffinose in your presentation Mike what could be the anti-nutritional factors important in corn wheat soybeans I believe it's it's it's actually the structure of the of the fibers in it because yeah the structures of the fibers in in for instant corn they are somewhat different to what you see for for wheat in Bali and so on the a major part of the five of us arrived in silence and compared to the other it looks as if it's more brands and or it is more brands than what you see with for instance wheat and that is certainly also some of the difficulties really of of degrading these complexes because and and we can see that for instance when we analyze for the residues of fibers that's left in fecal materials that what is really there that is lignin fiber complexes and then also some structures which typically is more complex than in in in the in in the faeces than what you give in so I think that is and and and and and corn that that has a quite complex structure in that sense with regard to the the soybeans a thing you could many of them can better be handled with some of the of the enzymes but there you need other types of enzymes yeah then you you use for for the serial parts of it because soil has far more of pectin containing materials along also with some settlers so that's another type of enzyme you really need to use them but we shouldn't forget that the soybeans that used they have been processed before and that can pretend you to change some ostrich in the interactions between the fiber components in also some of the proteins to some reason and how much that really matters I will say I don't know that's that's up to more investigation I will say thank you very contain maybe your next question a question to make in have you ever used proteases and in case yes do you have any results you know right yeah very direct and very direct answer no we used in some combinations in my former I guess career which was it Mississippi State University when I was more active in some of the enzyme trials but recent results in proteases that are on the market now okay maybe another question coming from the whip ah you still haven't mentioned the role of protease to increase total and amino acid digestibility can you also explain the difference between birds and pigs regarding the mode of action of enzyme so I suppose globally on the different enzyme so the mode of action of enzyme digestive transit time and so on the difference between vegan and and poultry so maybe maybe Jean to start experience on protease enzyme I would see the difference between pigs and poultry I think one difference where that has already been mentioned is the problem of this viscosity clearly it might be a problem in poetry while it's not really a problem maybe in piglets but doesn't negate negligible impact seen that's not a major problem in pigs what type of other problem dietary fiber you know the main difference is that dietary fiber is clearly a sort of different oils yeah because it is almost undigested or in digested the right ward while in pig's eye it is not I did I jest it but at least 50 or 60 percent digest it so there is a big difference there the question with dietary fiber it's that some dietary fiber sources are almost untied justed and some others are highly digestible there are good examples you know you may have wheat straw on one side which is almost antigen see that's like sand more or less and you should be a bit pub or serving hours so I think you know that better than me but which are highly fermented and digested and with an energy value that is very close to which cereal so clearly one difficulty is that in Broyles that's or in poultry that's almost not used but in pigs it's used but very differently according to the origin and also according to the body weight I mean the young pigs on the IGBT is small and in other pictures so it's very very complicated yeah yeah maybe going back to that question is it challenge also so should we develop in that case an enzyme in the condition of the swine intestine you know oh the problem digestive tract should be that different all linked to the substrate and the substrate could be the same in both species there is no doubt in environment that viscosity is a much bigger problem in poultry diets than is the case in in in pigs I completely agree with Sharon blade that it's a viscosity we are not considering that much as a problem in in pigs there can be some special type of grains that could cause some problem but all of us will say that the 30 I know was when you come to and and the effects of the viscosity could also be that the animal they try to compensate for for high viscosity diets by secreting more industrial enzymes to cope with the high viscosity and that will cause higher cost for for enzyme production and so on regarding the totaled ideas and all the digestibility and the digestibility potential of the fibers in in in pigs I I have as far as I could see it can actually go all the way from hardly anything which is the case when you are straw as mentioned here the outer part of the grain is also very digestible and then almost up to close to 100% it will never reach on dr. Sonya but maybe in the high 90s and and the how the individual species they handled the different type of feast of materials they does some probably some of the issues and they could well be so that you need to address different strategies depending on on the species with regime we already do but also depending on other conditions in the god it's interesting because we had a question coming on to say you talk about the different substrates is intellectual and so on and maybe looking at the enzyme is there negativity of the different enzyme or should we consider in fact a global enzyme solution targeting a global and digestible fraction and I would say you mentioned about the cost but finally the best solution should be to have a range of enzyme gives a global solution whatever so cost I would say and the question was in fact is there any negative effect of adding non relevant enzyme or in excess of an enzyme in in in poultry or orange wine alright why I don't think so Cindy the only concern would be the price maybe but this problem but I think maybe you are talking as well about the the additivity of the enzyme fake yeah we know we have an SPS we have fighters and we have protests maybe there are other ones I don't know exactly but clearly they have their own ethics it has to be maybe quantify maybe very more precisely according to the animal species to the type of individuals and so on but clearly the the effects will not be additive just I would say maybe one example amino acid amino acid can be an illicit activity of a typical ingredient of typical feed can be improved by Proteus yes there is some improvement but it can also be improved by NSPS clearly and it is also improved by fighters so is the are the improvements additive when you put them all together no because otherwise you will get a - PT above over 102 percent so you have to find some concept in in order to quantify the effect of enzymes on the amount of nutrients that remain undigested either at the end of the idiom maybe or at the end of the cecum so that's the point and then you have to find some way for modeling or evaluating the effect of these enzymes clearly they are not additive thank you there's no maybe you might you want to add some comment on that I completely agree they're not gonna be additive because there's only so much substrate but I think we need to evaluate their combinations mm-hm to look at efficacy for the substrate that's available and determine how we can address this and least cost formulation age of bird should be important conditions of birds nutrient density type trials could be overlaid with the enzyme additions to see how much improvement there could be mm-hmm thank you maybe another question from the web as substrate concentration increases is induce a rate of activity more important so should we adjust in fact the enzyme those we the substrate concentration what is your feeling maybe to directly that's a good question no Valerie but but I mean from a practical perspective you will usually may be always all those a little bit yeah and you can never be completely sure also what will actually be the actual activity when you are in the gastrointestinal tract because they are actually exposed to a number of progeny enzymes which and since the enzymes that they are proteins they will also try to attract it so so I I believe that you you will need some reducing depending on on the software but basically when you are in the gastrointestinal tract probably the the very or the concentration differences are not that high in in the small intestine indeed depending on the fiber level yeah any addition I would say that you have you have some interest in putting some overdosing again 'harry and it doesn't cost much so I think you have to to be in a situation where most situations practical situation either variable with feed or ingredients or animal species are met so clearly you should be rather generous in terms of enzymes inclusion so in fact you simply at a cheap cost maybe another question from the web to finish maybe one question what are the factors affecting average and range of enzyme improvement what is the optimal solution in order to integrate such knowledge in the decision tool quite a long question I just repeat earlier there's a time we can keep on the screen sir what are the factors affecting average and range of enzyme improvements and what is the optimal solution in order to integrate such knowledge in your decision tool I think you revolve some have some bit of an advanced way on that other questions at least have one for the first part of it yeah and that is that is important that you use the enzymes that are the soft freight repeaters are several times because there is no sense of using a pectin AIDS for instance on serums yeah yeah and there's not so much a sense of using cylon aces on soybean meals yeah so that's clearly some of the the dv8 you need to know your soft freight and you can then say well be okay in in in mixed diet where you have a serial part as the media one in most cases at least and then also some protein rich materials you may need at least the the the silent aces some cell relations maybe in some cases and then also some pectin aces although the effect of the pectin aces probably will be somewhere smaller than on the others because it's represent the lower part of it but it's important that that you consider the composition of the of the soft rate when you decide on which enzymes to be used maybe there is a very close connection between the substrate and the enzyme squad adequacy we just substrate that that's the main factor which which affected a the responsive query so maybe the conclusion would be better investigation of the undigestible part and then designing an enzyme solution which can target I would say so different parts of this undigestible fraction and then proposal to economical cost augmentation for fourth of it maybe as nice going on formulation challenging the Dyson's of my canoe canada commanded that i agree with what's been said the second part of that for poultry i think is for the decision making tool applied research and in proper settings and management that mimics the conditions in in the field so the application is is comparing apples to apples because our birds change so quickly and so fast and we have so many conditions around the world that we've really gotta set once once we implement what's been said to test it properly thank you so i'm sure that we have a lot of more question but we keep that to answer directly on the feed channel and bye bye everyone and looking forward to seeing you on April [Music]