[Music] so now what are the solutions I would say to reduce a trip loss that's a main question that everybody has on the lips I would say say what has a solution to reduce 3 plus and maybe say silicon introduced first the ideas about potential solutions yes so as we expand you a main factor of variation for 3 plus and I would say water holding capacity is the ultimate pH of the meet which is related to the glycogen contents so a solution that can change reduce for example the glycogen content of muscle will be efficient to reduce trip loss and cooking loss and improved processing yield so for many years in in in how we have studied the factors that affect the glycogen in muscle and we have found that there is two main factor which are genetic and nutrition but also some management practice that can affect this character and so by modulating this factor we we think that it will be possible to improve meat quality and especially a water or the incapacity let's talk maybe about more about genetic to start so genetic it is interesting to to know that in broiler most of the quality traits meat quality traits are under a genetic control and most of them are related to the ultimate ph of the meat so for this reason we have started a selection on these traits to look at the consequence for other meat quality traits including trip loss and n cooking loss of course so by studying this model which represents finally meet with acid pH and with a very high pH we were able to demonstrate that it is possible by this way to reduce the drip laws to reduce the cooking laws to improve by three points the processing yield and also to improve the color of the meat that is a very good tool in fact a very good model in fact to work on the basis of how do you explain the make pH and how do you correlate the ultimate pH and the drip loss and and so on so I think it's a very important model maybe Massimiliano you can maybe you have to add Cecil maybe on the on the nutrition aspects you want to comment a little bit more yes so if we can see that the genetic can be an selection on meat quality can be efficient it is also important to understand how animal nutrition can modulate muscle glycogen and can modulate the ultimate pH of meat so this was not really stood yet before and we start some studies on different aspects such as antioxidant or amino acid today we just stuck with the antioxidants massimino integrity issues because especially PSC meet the condition is associated with pres Lauder stresses especially pres lotta stress so it is important to increase the tolerance of the bird to restore stress and especially to its stress so dietary use of antioxidant especially vitamin E and selenium has been demonstrated that is able to increase the tolerance of bird especially to eat stress so to prevent or to mitigate the occurrence of PS emmitt but as I explained before vitamin he and selenium can be accumulated in as a muzzle and this can prevent also the damages of membrane and so prevent losses of liquid from the inside and to outside spaces so antioxidant use in diet can have to affect one to preventing stress during present other phases and second during processing to prevent damages to membrane integrity and also there are also some other study that also tested also like a natural antioxidant and natural antioxidant can be effective but cannot be accumulated in the muscle cell so the use in the diet is not so effective like vitamin E and selenium I'm sure that there will be a quite a lot of questions about strategy nutritional strategy to to work on that how long should you supply the animal before slaughter and so on we'll come back here later on with that we talked about aunty oxidants and what about amino acids I know that mass media you address the question of protein protein content and so on do you think that with amino acid we can affect the protein and affect the meat quality yes actually amino acid supply have been studied for many years in relation to performance and meat production yield but several years ago we start to to look at the effect of amino acid supply on on meat quality traits and first to demonstrate very well that supreme menteng birds with lysine was able to increase breast Mathilde which was well known degrees also body fatness but as a very interesting result we we were able to show that it it also decreased drip loss by increasing the ultimate ph of the meat so after this promising result we tried to figure out the relationship between the amino acid balance in the diet and the ultimate ph of the meat and we designed several study to look at the response of birds in terms of ultimate ph and what we demonstrated is that the balance of amino acid can really change the amount of glycogen in muscle with real impact on meat quality and this is very efficient because by changing the amino acid balance during three days before slaughter we were also able to change trip loss and processing yield of the meat okay that is very interesting but if we look at may be a type of results you obtain what could be at the end as a consequence and the practical consequence at the animal level so the consequence for meat quality was of course significant but with our partner we try to look at the calculation regarding the cost and again we can have by feeding birds with with good amino acid balance and what we found is that if the diet is well done to produce meat with a high pH we can compare to the control we can gain about 100 euros per tonne of meat produce and on the other side if the diet is not well designed and make to produce acid meat the loss can be very high because it's almost 400 euros so in fact in some way you see is that the difference of the variation could be up to 600 euro you know per turn factor I would say in practical condition do you think that people can can use that strategy today or is there still some refinement to develop on how to practically actually I think our study is not ready to use solution because people they have to adapt their nutritional strategy to to the ability of bird and to the official physiological capacity of birds but it clearly showed that diet that limit protein synthesis and increase energy storage is not for processing yield and for trip loss so I think by dis knowledge it can help nutritionists to design a diet and to help to produce meat with higher pH and at least less variable pH so we really need to understand better in fact the evolution of the nutrition prior to slaughter and really play a little bit more with the feed formulation and to really see up to the benefits and maybe without too much impact on the feed cost at the end in this experiments we have met several the cost of the the feed was not really increased because we increase the lysine but we decrease the other amino acid so the cost on feed was very low but by adding all the benefit we can have all along the chain until the processing we can have a very very high benefit and I think now it is important to not only calculate the benefit on the breast material but it is also important to consider all the waste and all the losses after slaughter and after you also worked on specific amino acids to shoot to see if there was some effects on some amino acid like sulfur amino acid I would say on through the antioxidant potential so we consider first the amino acids as just break off construction but also maybe the rolls beyond this protein deposition so as antioxidant fanzone can you comment a little bit more on what you did on that issues yes search for amino acids are very interesting because as you say they are amino acid to build the protein but they have also a specific role on the antioxidant response and by these two ways I think they are able to improve meat quality because they will protect the protein from oxidation but they are also able to modulate the ultimate pH of the meat and this was demonstrated in an experiment by using the HM TBA instead of classical methionine and we were able to to show that by using it both the UT made pH was increased and oxidative stability was also increased with a positive impact on mid quality especially three plus so still some work to do of course but I think nutrition has to be studied in relation with of course performance and feed feed efficiency meat heels but really nutritionists as to consider also meat quality industry it's very interesting that you show you demonstrator numbers that you could manipulate in fact the meat quality by the previous diet before before strata maybe I will ask Paul now in the practical conditions you know do you measure drip loss in slaughter plants today you know because that's a main main question we have very often I cannot I cannot speak for anybody in supply chain because I am I would say only working in one plant even if I'm visiting a lot of them in the pathway where I'm currently working we are not measuring but we have a quite good view of it is it more important or less important what I can tell you is changing from everyday within a day within a frog we asked to Sicilian massimino is not some ideas about solution to reduce trip loss but I would like to ask the people from the industry also to say do they have found a way to reduce trip load we have to do there have they found solutions to reduce three-plus so Paul if you can objectively I would say answer to that question do you have a solution to reduce the process very interesting question because they have no real answer if we would I would say as a joke we will not if we would know about it either would be secret either we can better say that we don't know really we are facing this changing situation all the time but it is more it's bigger than it was some policy you have a European representative of the putri process so I would have a question do you think that we are all facing the same issues in European countries and I think you are a feedback from the field is interesting on that yes what is easy I am NOT a scientist okay but I am travelling a lot when I can say anywhere that you have trip losses in a retail bank so we have all of us facing the situation maybe also we could say that as heavy or heavier the birds ha maybe the percentage is a little below higher but of course as a piece of meat are bigger there is more true process okay we can be back excuse me to be back on on facing the situation from country to country I am speaking without European side because we are actually and it is really totally different in some countries on retail back where you are watering because it is nothing yeah we say in the beginning that we are focusing on three pluses we don't talk about I would say breast meat default Maya parties and so on but it's interesting to see is there a link between the current breast meat default and what we have talked before you know drip laws and what holding capacity so Massimiliano maybe you can canal this is an interesting question because market is pushing to have easier birth because of the increased demand for Kitab and especially processed product so as demonstrated by Susilo in several star if you increase the loading gauge there is a decreasing glycogen content in the module so there is an increasing pH and these may be associated to an increase at water holding ability as explained before but overall you may see a decrease in water holding ability why maybe because there is an increase in occurrence of abnormality like for example PS limit because if your bird are less prone to tolerate its stress during present other time but also because if you increase latte rate you can have also an IR occurrence of breast myopathy like why striping and especially Odin breast and if we look at the pH of wooden breast we can see that the pH is higher than normal more or less very similar to dfd condition so we can expect that wooden breast can have a very good water holding ability and if we look at data on drip loss value are not so different in respect to normal bit but if we cook wooden breast meat we can observe a huge flow out of liquid during cooking and this especially because there is a reduction of protein content in the breast and this is the main cause because of the reduced water holding ability of the breast so in this case there is no pH effect but there is a protein effect that affect the water owning ability [Music]