thank you everybody for thank you everybody for participating in this seminar i am truly honored to be able to uh being the last speaker of this outstanding seminar adizeo put together on such important topic i have to thank special especially to them into julian to alder for inviting me it's it's been it's been a great experience for me trying to put together this this presentation for you i have given full uh rights for addiso to completely distribute this presentation to all the attendance that wants to keep it to happen it's your presentation is it's everybody's presentation now and uh i would like to start this presentation um asking a question what is life and it is a very difficult uh questions uh even with all all the technology that we have that we currently have we humans have not been able to create life out of nothing uh perhaps the molecule that it's the the magic molecule that differentiates living organisms from non-living organisms are enzymes and the way enzymes work is through using quantum mechanics laws as particularly quantum tunneling quantum tunneling is the way that explains everything from photosynthesis to bird's migration and if you are really interested in this fascinating topic i highly recommend a couple of books to you life on the age and the physics of god i assure you that your life will never be the same after reading these two incredible books the way most of the presentation is focused on precisely enzymes in the summer of 1998 1960 an outbreak of an unknown disease killed a hundred thousand turkeys in 500 cases this was named turkey ecstasy to this mysterious disease after investigation it was finally traced to microtoxins in ground nut mill fifth uh imported from brazil by the british cargo ship rossetti defects the feed was known to contain a compound that could cause cancer and since then over 500 mycotoxins has been and these are secondary metabolites that are able to affect and have toxic effect in all forms of life in earth to try to understand micro toxic toxicology today we know that these complex toxins are able to cause profound changes in in in the cells of living organisms affecting the metabolism the proteome genome and transcriptome uh basically every single or point of physiology is affected by these cells and by these toxins affecting different organ functions immunity digestion reproduction and in general the the health of the uh individual regardless if it's uh a eukaryote or prokaryote organism a plant or fungi all animals including um all forms of life are affected some way somehow by these toxins of course the damage to these cells by these compounds depend on several factors like the concentration of the toxins the duration of the explosion at the farm level how hygiene humidity ventilation the management needs of course the species of the animal the strain the age the sex the nutritional health status there are many factors that will affect and interfere with disability of the of this disease we know now that several animal species are more susceptible to some mycotoxins and more than other animals particularly turquoise extremely sensitive to aflatoxins but as you can see pigs are from from those 500 over 500 mycotoxins that have been discovered they are grouped in six groups and and pigs are extremely sensitive to pretty much most of these compounds um we now uh this is a very interesting paper that was recently published and explains the susceptibility in turkish for aflatoxin and these outers found that this susceptibility is associated with the inability of the hepatic glutathione as transference to detoxify the reactive electrophilic metabolites of afbo or aflatoxin b189 epoxy which is the extremely toxic compound for the hepatocytes in the animals the cytochrome p450 superfamily of enzymes are merely mainly concentrated in the liver and is through this super family of enzymes that these organ this important organ deliver particularly in animals are able to detoxify and metabolize a lot of compounds hydrolyzing oxidation and and through these changes through these enzymatic changes are able to come to to change and modify many of the toxic compounds that are found on the diet produced by bacteria fungi parasites or infections if there is injury and or any other chemical exposure these uh p 450 cytochrome enzymes are able to detoxify a lot of compounds in the case of aflatoxins this this is going to modify aflatoxins in a way that is going to make them even more toxic but then then there are other enzymes that are going to be able to bio uh degradate those uh oxidative compounds in different in different ways as we're going to to see um of course uh this interesting paper has been shown that mask mycotoxins are starting to be biodegrade by the host since the saliva at the upper gastrointestinal level from this whole using um saliva gastric juices or dodenal juices or bile there is a beginning and they have these investigators have been shown that there is some hydrolysis but interestingly we can see that is the microbiota through fecal fermented fermentation in the lower gastrointestinal tract where these mask mycotoxins has been able to be hydrolyzed over 97 depending of the toxic compound they were looking but but it was it's very interesting to see that the interactions between mycotoxins and microbiota may explain may also explain part of the differences in the susceptibility to mycotoxins among the animal species we see that isolation of microbes present in the gut responsible for the biotransformation of four mycotoxins into less toxic metabolites and for binding mycotoxins let these findings lead to the development of probiotics enzymes cell extracts that are currently used to prevent and reduce mycotoxic toxicity in animals more recently bio inactivation of mycotoxins into less toxic compounds notably through the hydrolysis of mass ex microtoxins by enzymes reveal that the health benefits of the gut microbiota on mycotoxins to the enzymes that they produce can vary strongly depending on the mycotoxins and the micro that is involved mycotoxin research can be divided in three main main areas of research we can look at the cellular targets of the mycotoxins this is in the epithelial cells the goblet cells and neurons particularly in the gut associated nervous system which is considered today as the second brain the entity nervous system contains more neurons over a hundred million neurons more neurons that are present in the whole peripherals uh nervous system and it's it's it's uh mycotoxins can have a profound effect on the on these neurons in the uh in in this important organ that is the intestine we can look at the markers look at oxidative stress and permeability and we're going to see that this is one of the most um negative effects that microtoxins can have on gut integrity increase gut permeability through oxidative stress and of course looking at the effects of the microbiota due to the direct toxic effects of mycotoxins on prokaryotes and not only eukaryotes cells but also prokaryotes we it's been known that mycotoxins can have profound changes in god microbiota composition and we can see it's been shown that these changes can be evaluated not only at film level but also genus species and species of these important microbiota that is in the gi tract in the gastrointestinal tract these changes of this toxic effect produced by mycotoxins on the microbiota on the intestinal microbiota can cause profound changes in this fragile ecologic system modifying the elbiosis this is the the normal um composition of beneficial bacteria to dysbiosis by these changes these these biosis are associated with profound inflammatory effects in the gi tract and and and we can see that any kind of stress any any kind of stress not only at nutritional level by contamination of mycotoxins we can see that the the nutrient density the compositions if there are enzymes the ingredients of the diets but regardless any stress can be environmental through heat stress for example ammonia high density can be produced by biologic stress virus bacteria on the parasites could be psychological emotional any any kind of stress regardless of its origin is going to have a profound impact on this fragile ecosystem in the gi tract the microbiota producing this bacteriosis when when we have a change in the normal profiles of beneficial bacteria in the gut they are going to have profound effects in the health of the animals several years ago time magazines dedicated special issue to what they call the secret killer and the secret killer was or is identified as inflammation it's it's been recognized that inflammation is associated with heart attacks all types of cancer alzheimer and many other diseases the way this is working and it's it's it's fascinating because because here we need to remember and understand that about 80 of the immune systems cells innate or acquired are located in the gi tract in the gastrointestinal tract the gut is the most uh is one of the most important organs where we have high number of these uh immune immune cells and the reason is clear the gi tract is responsible for tolerating the food and the water the animals we absorb for our necessities but at the same time it has to block the entrance the i isolate the external environment from the internal environment and from all the bacteria that are located in the gi tract the microbiota or any pathogens that we can consume during the ingestion of food or water so it's been associated it's been it's been considered that about 90 of all diseases regardless of its origin could be metabolic disease autoimmune disease any kind of cancer enters in the gi tract its origin has direct influence by the inflammation inflammation in the intestine gastrointestinal tract and this is the association of knowing that there is such number high number of immune cells in the gi tract because of oh because if there is gut inflammation there's gonna be tremendous repercussions inflammation has been associated with so many many diseases 90 of most of the diseases have an origin on in through gut inflammation and the way this is working is because we have got inflammation there's gonna be rough disruption of very important thai junction proteins that are keeping the enterocytes together isolating the external environment the lumen from the internal environment when we have this disruption of the anti-junction proteins is we're going to have what is known as leaky gut and leaky gut then is going to have the penetration of antigens bacteria and many other negative stuff to the blood causing systemic chronic inflammation and that's how these inflammatory effects in the intestine have profound effects on all the cells of the organ of the system so when we have inflammation in the gi tract there are not only negative consequences in the permeability of this important organ it's been demonstrated that salmonella for example uses benefits from intestinal inflammation it has been shown by several investigators because well you know and in this case not only salmonella but many enteropathogenic bacteria gram-negative bacteria that have lps in their cell wall lps lipopolysaccharides is very very antigenic and induce inflammation in the gi tract this compound by inducing inflammation is going to have very fascinating effects that benefits bacterias like salmonella or e coli or campylobacter because through the process of inflammation they were going to have the secretion of several reoxide oxygen species oxygen is going to be that that is produced by heterophils by macrophages trying to reduce the it's a mechanism of innate cells to kill bacteria and it's very effective oxygen reactive species are extremely toxic unfortunately they are not toxic for bacteria or other microorganisms but they are also toxic for these cells itself but in this case when we have inflammation that can be induced by a mycotoxin or a salmonella we're going to have this increase of oxygen reactive species which is that in the intestine are going to be uh this excess of oxygen is going to join to diosulfate producing tetragonate in situ in the intestine and for those of you that are not very familiar with the tracheonate well the tracheonate it's it's been used by microbiologists in broth is to have a tetragonal protein is a selective media to grow salmonella when we are trying to do diagnostic of this pathogen from any organ that we are looking or any tissue so it's a selective media for growing salmonella in in vitro imagine what this bacteria has been able to do produce the protonate ending to increase the chances of the faber favor this growth of of these bacteria tetragonal is also very toxic for many of the other beneficial bacteria so that's how salmonella uses these inflammation processes to benefit itself and of course other pathogens like emmeria emmeria the damage that emmeria parasites cause on the gi tract but induce also superior inflammation and profound changes in the microbiota diversity and it's been shown that salmonella benefits from coxity infections through the inflammation that they produce but mycotoxins basically is doing similar effects there are other studies several studies that have shown that mycotoxin also favor coccidia parasites to induce the when we have the association of mycotoxins coccidia parasites also benefits from this asses but this this damage in the um in the in the intestinal mucosa it is also known that mycotoxins are able to produce profound negative changes toxic effect not only in the enterocytes but also in the goblet cells the goblet cells are those cells that are in the gi tract and in many mucosas a geniturinaria respiratory tract all the mucosas have goblet cells and these are the cells that are in in charge of producing mucus and it's been shown that mycotoxins are able to negatively negatively impact the um these important cells that produce mocha so there is um we can see that the biological effects that mycotoxin are very profound not only affecting and being able to destroy enterocytes but also goblet cells and neurons and this is a way that is going to have profound changes in god's physiology also very important very very important is the the effects that they have on the microbiota all these inflammation by direct or indirect effects of mycotoxins are gonna have tremendous impact on the microbiota producing these biosis when we have dysbiosis we have more inflammation and more inflammation is going to have more leaky gut more bacterial translocation so you can see the mycotoxins have negative effects not only directly for example on on the hepatocytes aflatoxins by destroying a pathocytes is very toxic very negative just like alcohol and that is the problem of chronic alcoholism in human for example the alcohols just like mycotoxins not only are toxic very toxic for the hepatocytes but also for the enterocytes increasing god vernability this gut leaky gut syndrome causing gut inflammation which is going to have a profound effect causing systemic inflammation and chronic systemic inflammation is gonna have profound changes in all the cells of the organism obesity for example obesity is a state of chronic inflammation to an obesity has many effects negative effects in all the organs all the tissues of individuals through this chronic systemic inflammation so what are the strategies that we have to reduce mycotoxin damage well we have we need to understand these strategies to detoxify and repair the organs that are affected are one of the most important mechanisms that we have in in terms of biology how we can bio inactivate mycotoxin is through the enzymes and in this case produced by microbes bacteria by yeast and enzymes this magic molecule can have profound beneficial effects through the enzymes that the microbiota can produce or the um hose itself so we can we can see and it's been shown and that several investigators have been able to isolate bacteria from the soil some environmental samples and many of these bacteria have shown that to produce different enzymes that are able to bio um inactivate the mycotoxins time is my limitation for this presentation i wish i could have more time to get into the details of these fascinating articles that have been able to show how different bacteria isolated from soil have on the bioinactivation properties for microtoxins and there have been several you can you can always email me i can share this presentation these articles you can download them themselves most of them are open access and the objective of of this talk is to show you that there are so many bacteria unknown unknown that are out there that have been able to to bioinactivate mycotoxins through enzymatic um fascinating enzymes and there are also many other studies that have shown many scientists have been able to isolate bacteria from gastrointestinal tract of chickens and these bacteria have been able to bio inactivate several mycotoxins that are affecting animals um pigs have been also used bacteria isolated from the normal gut microflora for pigs have been able to show by several investigators that are also important compounds to bioinactivate mycotoxins through the enzymes that these microbiota organisms have we are talking about isolation of specific bacteria and these bacteria have been isolated from from bromine fluid also romaine protozoas roman bacteria that produce these enzymes that are being able to bio um detoxification of the mycotoxins it is it is fascinating that bacteria the different ways bacteria are able to reduce disability of mycotoxin in animals perhaps some of the most studied mechanisms rt binding and the binding of for example lactobacillus several lactobacillus have the ability to absorb mycotoxins in the eardrum and the binding is so strong it's irreversible and and it's been shown that these mechanisms involve several compounds that are on the cell membrane of lactobacillus and and the binding involves hydrogen bonds and van der waal uh bowel's forces and and is it is so strong that this binding when bus lactobacillus bind mycotoxins then mycotoxins are excreted in the feces of the animals so the mechanism of the bindings are at different molecular structures that lactobacillus have in the cell membrane and if this has been studied for many many years but more recently um it was also shown that lactobacillus produce several enzymes that directly can also have the ability to produce biodegradation of enzymes and not only the enzymes that they can produce but the metabolites that they produce are able to also reduce or bioinactivate several microtoxins this particular article for those that are interested in studying in more deep details the different ways um biological detoxification of mycotoxins by not only lactobacillus but in general lactic acid bacteria have um to reduce disability of of this disease knowing these basis we can we can see how and why bacteria has been able to use to being one of the most important bio inactivation tools that we can have in our hands to reduce disability of mycotoxins and and these strategies that we have is not only of course by the ingredients of the diet the quality of the ingredients that we are providing to ourselves or our animals but we can also use probiotics or prebiotics which prebiotics are basically fit for increasing beneficial bacteria we can look at assassin biotics which is the combination of probiotics and prebiotics and we can we can associate this like providing the seed and the fertilizer together so we are giving the beneficial live bacteria and the food that they have to increase their numbers and the gi tract and have beneficial effects profound beneficial effects not only by bioinactivation of mycotoxins but but also changing the physiology of the of the animal because because the microbiota that we have in the gi tract of all animals represents our second genome the microbiota that we have in our gut it's overpass the number ten to one we have ten bacteria for every somatic cell in all animals regardless if it's a bee a pea or a human the the proportion is is a proportion estimated 10 to 1 and this number this association this number 10 to 1 is not only given by the number of bacteria versus cells but also by the genes so the microbiome the genes of the microbiota the microbiota it's it's all also overpassing the genome of animals it's been estimated that the microbiota genes are about 300 000 genes so you can see that the association we live on earth also on all animal species depend on this fragile microbiota that's why it and they have profound effect on the physiology we could talk hours about all the beneficial changes that beneficial bacteria do on the immune system the entity nervous system endocrine system all the physiology the health of the animal depends of this fragile ecosystem so uh by providing probiotic prebiotics or decombination in symbiotics we can have this beneficial effect of this bacteria phytobiotics are another compound that we have another tool um to reduce disability of mycotoxin and of course the use of enzymes for many years many years uh it's been known the the the physical ability of jesus cell wall and jesus constituents to bind mycotoxins mycotoxin binding can be enhanced greatly by the use of g cells or the components of the g-cells mainly by the glucans beta-glucans and mannon oligosaccharides instead of the whole cells the fact that dead cells do not lose their binding ability shows that the interaction of such molecules to to bind mycotoxins in a by addition is is rather by um by these wall components rather by covalent binding or by metabolisms or other like like enzymes in living organisms so we have been also in our laboratories being able to look at different um phytobiotics and and interestingly very recently we have shown and we're working with lettuce let us some of components of of lettuce are able to extract to have incredible properties to bind mycotoxins even stronger than the most common adsorbents known out there in in terms of commercial application and and this this is this is we're currently working on on these fascinating uh compounds in with with another group of scientists at the national university in mexico unam but of course of course enzymes enzymes it's the key the key of the biodegradation by inactivation of mycotoxins is done by the different enzymes the the detoxification the changes in the structure of these toxic compounds is thanks to the production of the enzymes and in several years ago we were looking on isolation screening and identification of bacillus as direct fed microbials candidates to detoxify aflatoxin b1 we found one bacillus subtilis that in vitro show uh the activity to biodegradate aflatoxin b1 unfortunately when we test this but uh that direct fat microbial in bibo in the chickens and we gave uh these chickens a diet contaminated with aflatoxin b1 we didn't see any effect to reduce the severity of the disease however we continue our research isolating other bacillus candidates that were able to produce exogenous high concentration of lipase phytase proteases and several carbohydrates and in by deselection of these in vitro properties of these bacillus we create another direct fed microbial that when we test in again in chickens that we that they receive a diet contaminated with a flat toxin b1 we found and and this is it was a very interesting manuscript that i i recommended to you um give it a great it's it's incredible because we were able to see that this direction microbial was able to improve the performance the immunological status and the serum biochemical parameters of the chickens that received this direct fat microbial compared with control birds and this was very very interesting curcumin curcumin is another phytobiotic compound that is out there with incredible properties uh perhaps um the most important properties of curcumin are all the activity the inhibition of aflatoxin biotransformation because uh in in in in the case of cytokine p450 this activity of this powerful enzyme produce more toxic effects the afbo well there is um this indication that curcumin can also reduce these bio activation and reduce the more potent toxic effect of aflatoxin that way and of course by immunomodulator effects so um there i i wish i had more more time to get into deeper profound effects of of of the benefits of core coming i'm just i just wanna show you that we've been testing and evaluating several cellulosic polymers and curcumin to reduce aflatoxin b1 effect on performance and immunological parameters in broiler chickens and and we have seen incredible incredible benefits like has been shown by many other many other scientists more recently this year we just published this article where we were able to show the effect of curcumin and copper acetate against salmonella infections uh on on on and improving the intestinal permeability and microbial composition in broiler chickens so what about essential oils essential soils like thyme and you can you can you can google microtoxins and essential oils and you're going to see an incredible number of publications out there showing that essential oil can partially restore the negative effects of mycotoxins on several animals but the way they are able to produce and reduce these effects are of course essential oils have antioxidant antifungal antibacterial immune modulated properties but the way essential oils ameliorate the negative effect of microtoxins is by their antioxidant properties you already were able to have and listen a specific lecture on the oxidative stress negative effects of mycotoxins on the cells so that's that's how essential oils can help in increasing the the the overall um health status of the birds by their anti-antioxidant anti-inflammatory properties that they have and also increasing the immune system so with this i thank you very much for your attention and let me tell you and assure you that um you can always contact me by email and and here in the at the university of arkansas you have a friend and and if i can do anything for any person out there please contact me i'll be more than happy to try to do whatever i can to to help and answer your questions thank you very much for your attention okay thank you um great presentation i hope everybody enjoyed so we now have um about 15 minutes to answer your questions if you want to type them on the chat area on this right side of your screen i'll be glad to read them to dr uh julie vorska and i'll go ahead and start with the first one here um do antibiotics reduce the ability of hosts to coop with mycotoxins um yes thank you so as we heard from the ms presentation the microbiota is like like the second second brain and very important for the host at all not just speaking about mycotoxin degradation but if you're using their antibiotics and they can kill microbiota so we are like reducing the natural ability of microflora to defend against mycotoxins to produce metabolites to produce enzymes which can be helpful to bio degradate biodegrade mica mycotoxin so yes i think it's it's very important and if we speak about the ruminants for example some of the some of my toxins like penicillium mica toxins they are important for silage they can have antibiotic effect already so if we have mycotoxins and feed it to ruminants and they can already decrease the ability of microbiota of micro of roman microflora to degrade mycotoxins yes and we know that for example for ruminants microbiota plays really important role in degradation of trichotitis like don t2 toxin and orthotoxin a can be degraded by a healthy microflora two hundred percent but if we have some decrease in microflora or have antibiotics or okay mycotoxins well we have negative impact in the micro microbial and also some conditions like acidosis acidosis and cancer switch like sweet thief uh microbiota like um during this presentation you remember uh dr memo has shown that we have like balance of good and bad microbiota all this and in this case we have like this this balance is already going down this level of pathogens increasing so yeah it's very important topic i agree okay thank you next question here uh do the microbiota is the only responsible tool for microtoxin destruction in the animal yes microbiota is one of the important but we also have liver cells hepatocytes and again as we've seen today during this presentation that they can produce uh enzymes and enzymes can degrade micro mycotoxins also enterocytes can be the host cells which which can degrade my toxins and phagocytes sometimes can be also effective against mycotoxins so we are not speaking about just about the microbiota even microbiota is number one but still we have other cells on host which can help us for example liver cells you know that liver can degrade for example dawn very effectively in in peaks to don't three glue grenade and in poultry to don't three sulfate so it's liver cells which are degradation degrading or biotransforming the mycotoxins perfect thank you next question here um what's the best way to combine probiotics and prebiotics to have maximum effect take them at the same time or alternately yeah um again we have showed today about symbiotics like they're together but we need to know what is the aim of the usage of this probiotics and uh probiotics for example if we had the um antibiotics before like antibiotics treatment and we need to uh help microbiota to to sit like like you mentioned during the doctor mentioned during this presentation like to seed microbiota then we use probiotics but if you want to boost uh the host microbiota which already present in the gut uh we will need to use probiotics like yeast or mixed extract or whatever to to have a fertilizer or to to feed to feed microbiota so it's dependent on the uh aim but aim via we are we have yeah so okay thank you moving forward here to the next one um would a binder be the best approach to help on the host microbiota to respond to mcdoxin challenge that's interesting question well um binding binder like binding is is very well because it's like well first of all we need to try to eliminate as much of mycotoxin as possible for example we know that for example aflatoxin b1 is very well absorbed by normal clays and it can be absorbed in vivo 80 percent even in literal 100 percent and uh yeah but we need to try to eliminate as much as possible for example uh we're speaking about aflatoxin or ergot alkaloids are very well absorbed by clays or uh like easter also east some some amount of xeroline also can be absorbed and eliminated and then but we need to understand that we cannot absorb 100 even in case of of aflatoxin p1 it's because it's very fast absorbed and just binder cannot do it like very fast and in time so we have like 20 of uh in case of aflatoxin v1 at sort and now we need to help microbiota to help liver to help microbiota to biodegrade or to cope with that amount we have already in the gut and the same with other mycotoxins some of them you know that for example difficult to absorb dawn really difficult but even if some some one can absorb some don't and like take it through all the gods to the low part of god and then it can be because at sort it doesn't mean that it's by that it's not active in most of cases the mycotoxins still active in binders and it goes to the lower blood of god and can damage the enterocytes because for don the target organ is a gut so uh not really good idea to to absorb them better to help the body to to help host cells to bio and activate because yeah as i mentioned already the liver can biodegrade it's very well and most of the most important it's absorbed very fast it's absorbed very fast and already in stomach so so in this case yes we can first of all we can bind as we if we can if we can bind something and then health microbiota health microflora has caused cells to to deal with this net in natural way like it's always done in nature you remember um for example oh you have seen like wild uh swine or swine when they're in open spaces somewhere in in the nature they can eat soil they eat soil very often and soil microbiota as we seen during today's presentation soil microbiota can degrade micro micro toxins very well so it's like natural protection and natural mechanism which can be also boosted by using some other products like like you mentioned but i understand some yeast or whatever yeah okay thank you um you mentioned a little bit about ruminants already so there's a question here about it um in view of the extensive role of the microbiota in defense against my toxins what is the situation in ruminants yes the situation if this ruminant is like all the same because we for many years we thought that the ruminants are not susceptible to mycotoxins and so it's not like a problem at all for ruminants mycotoxins since they have a roman microflora and that's true that's true the roman microbiota uh like bacteria and protozoa yeasts they all working together and can degrade and degrade mycotoxin successfully again but to some extent if you have a healthy microflora if we have like good conditions no acidosis everything is perfect then we would expect that it's at least trichotisms and orgatoxin a will be degraded but at the same time in roman microflora cannot degrade anything of aflatoxin nothing zero and other mycotoxins like uh let's see clapisonic acid and many others it's like zero uh biotransformation meaning that even even if we have microbiota we need to take care of ruminants in this case especially speaking about aphotoxin and again uh like in silage we have uh a lot of penicillium micro micro uh mycotoxins which can we have negative effect on the roman microbiota on yeast and protozoa and bacteria so okay thank you um we have one final question here saying enzymes were mentioned several times during the presentation should we add pure enzymes or just support a host bacteria to produce them well also very interesting questions well my opinion is that the host microbiota can produce uh enzymes very successfully and not just enzymes enzymes also some other metabolites like we seen during this presentation lactobacillus example lactobacillus can first of all bind some xeroline and also bind like and take it from the organism to the fish's fishes and also uh produce enzymes microbiota and produce another metabolites and they can video your degrade or deactivate microtoxins but if you have external uh external enzymes well it's also good but we need to make sure that they are starting to work already in the stomach already in the acidic conditions because as i mentioned for example dom or sierra leone they are very all aflatoxin they are really fast absorbed and already from the uh stomach so if most of them external enzymes they're starting to work in the gut in the low gut when ph 6.5 and in this case it's already too late too late to build a great uh mycotoxins which are already absorbed in stomach so if we have some enzymes in there already they are working in the already in stomach well good but we need to make sure that but still i believe that the natural microbiota can be much more much more effective with producing not just enzymes and other metabolites which can be also important and how to verify it okay thank you i don't have any other question here in the chat so um i would like thanks everybody for joining us today it was a great uh series with this five uh webinars i think we could cover a lot of the the main topics around my toxins and the challenges to animals um including bioinactivations we had today antioxidant oxidative stress problems as we we heard before the binding of my toxins so we could cover a lot of the different things the industry discussed on these topics i appreciate julia for taking the time to answer all the questions we had and uh we will be in touch with you for uh new ideas new ways to bring information to to you in the industry and i will definitely have some some very good uh things to present in the future so thank you again and i will give the floor to my tails just to say a couple words to the team in south america thank you very much thank you very much [Music] opportunity okay thanks a lot thank you bye-bye bye-bye