[Music] so me questions arrived during your presentation and we try to to answer to some of the questions or at least many of the main topics but I would like to remind people that you still can post questions on the website during the discussion so to start I suggest to take the first question please okay do mycotoxin Roma tell you'll induce oxidative stress I may ask maybe Peter to start to answer on that yeah it's an interesting question and I've been working on this subject for number of years and published in a few papers and reviews and the major conclusion is that at the molecular level most of mycotoxins in poles oxidative stress we can talk about t2 toxin which mainly impose oxidative stress in the god and damage in god actually will will cost a lot of poultry and pig production produces we are talking about dawn we are talking about ochratoxin aflatoxin for munitions so generally speaking most of micro toxins actually impose oxidative stress most of mica toxins are immunosuppressive because this oxidative stress as I mentioned before can damage those communication devices and most of micro toxin impose apoptosis which is a program cell death therefore from the point of view of nutritionists to deal with mycotoxins is very important but it's very difficult questions because there is no magic bullet there is no full solution for this problem - in animal industry because on the markets are playing to various solutions including various adsorbents but we need to be realistic there is no in its orbit which can absorb hundred percent of those mycotoxins therefore part of them may be 30% to 40% can escape those binding and they will go to zeliha where they will be detoxified and during the duck toxification the process the liver can be there they have one too oxygen supplementation antioxidant strategy is a key to deal with those mycotoxins on the other side dawn is mainly metabolized in see God again we need to maintain that balance between Antioch sands and rocks and things a god to make sure that the toxification of the dawn is going well therefore from the point of view of nutritionists we need to have in place a good antioxidant strategy to deal with those micro toxins which actually immunosuppressive which are damaging God which are damaging liver and which actually decrease productive and reproductive performance thank you Peter you want to add some well actually Peter is the true expert in this field but of course I can add something because in fact as I said before it is not possible to have a good meat quality without having a good feed quality so mycotoxins is one of those factors that has have to be controlled because in fact they have an impact on the on the animal and also an impact on the final and the final product so in the way decisions that we make at the farm has consequences on the final products and this is something that we have to take into consideration the feeds should be of high quality and of course the the presence of micro toxins is something that we should avoid as much as possible thank you another question coming from the web that's may be related to what we see before is oxidized fat in the diet a source of oxidative stress and I think it's quite interesting because we talk about the stress as the gut cleaver but how can you link that oxidized fat and oxidative stress there is definitely a linkage in here yes in fact because not only for animals also for human beings it is proven that whenever we intake oxidized lipids and oxidized proteins right after that there is an increase of in the level of some lipid and protein oxidation markers in the blood and urine and some of the tissues so it is very clear than that so some lipid and protein oxidation products some oxidized amino acids and then some low molecular lipid oxidation products they are present in the food and then of course after intake they will be in contact with the intestinal mucosa and actually they are having some some activity in there and actually Peter can actually talk about that because you know we affect the God's health not only in animals but also in human beings and then after that there is an intestinal uptake so they are absorbed and that they go through the bloodstream and they are distributed to different organs and so obviously there is a direct impact of what we can call dietary oxidative stress and then oxidative stress is what is basically an array and increase of oxidation products in our blood in in our tissues and then they will have some negative consequences so definitely return into the idea that feeds should be controlled in terms of quality we should avoid using feeds with high oxidation oxidation levels and that also take me to the idea that polyunsaturated fatty acids are also dangerous in feeds because they are very sensitive to oxidation Aries is more likely to have high oxidation rates when we are having feeds and reached in polyunsaturated fatty acids unless we include of course some antioxidants naturally but thank you and Maya maybe Vito you can add some comments on that and yes the gut level as I mentioned already there is a delicate balance between antioxidants and Pro oxidants and oxidized fat which is common from the diet is a major contributor to the pro-oxidant part and we need to realize that the quality of the fat in the diet is related to the price of a diet so sometimes producers are looking for cheap fat and if the ship fat is oxidized there could be consequences we can look for example the breeder side because what happens that part of the oxidized fat can be transferred into the egg and then during embryonic development its imposing additional oxidative stress which will be related to increased mortality during embryonic development and postnatal development and we know today is that you know the maternal nutrition is a key actually for the productive and reproductive performance of progeny so on this side at the side of epigenetics we now can say that it's very dangerous to play with oxidized fat at least in the breeder died we know that oxidized fat can have negative consequences for broilers and for other animals but when we're talking about breeding animals it could be sound but it could be a chicken breeder or poultry breed then in this side we need to avoid as much as possible Rocsi dies fat which are cheap but cheap does not mean effective therefore from this point of view supplementation with antioxidants the antioxidant system maintenance is a key issue to actually prevent those damages which oxidized fat can actually impose thank you Peter maybe another question from the web you say free radicals are used as weapons against bacteria play a role of messenger what about - hi aunty excellent intake balance and actually too much of good see it could be bad things and because generally speaking if we look at the immune system this very very delicate balance is responsible not only for production of free radicals which is under the control of the cell but the signaling signaling processes are very important to maintain that protection to the actually to the maximum I feel a quick efficiency and therefore too much okay there is not much actually evidence but Sarah some publication says that overdose of vitamin E probably can affect immune systems that could be one examples that too much of goods in Keller can be bad if you look at the selenium side we know that high dose of selenium can especially in the form of cellulite can impose oxidative stress and this will be also bad and in general terms when we look at the diet in general we have plain Tunes various antioxidant compounds and we need to make sure that we have that optimal balance I'm talking about I mentioned in my figures that for example flavonoids are considered as antiox and police and there are plenty of publications actually claim means that flavonoids are very good antioxidants however if you look more closely what is done with them they are very good antioxidants in the tube they are very good and your sense even in vitro they might do a good job with meat quality when you add them directly into the meat however they are not well absorbed therefore they can do probably a good job in the god but beyond the god it's not the direct antioxidant effect yes they probably can affect transcription factors and be involved in other mechanism of you know maintaining a one-two action system but we cannot say today that flavonoids in saliva have direct for example in saliva have direct antioxidant effects therefore for the nutritionist it's a difficult job to finds it proper balance which gives the best results in terms of stability one two or sentence a field stability antioxidants and their absorption in the god and the delivery source and toxin to target tissue when they can have that effect and therefore to find finalize this answer to that question yes too much of a good thing could be bad therefore the balance is a key so our job as beliefs is more difficult in fact you have to balance but we have also to deal before the absorption and after the absorption when we look at submit aspects so well in fact that I think that the question is actually very pertinent and very clever and and the situation is very complex particularly particularly with flavonoids with these phenolic compounds what they are usually called natural antioxidants and here we also have the disconnection between animal nutrition and human nutrition as well because you know some of these compounds some vitamins like vitamin E vitamin A and vitamin C as well as flavonoids there sometimes used as an additional supplement and there are actually many studies carried out by accredited and really famous and and recognized experts in the field stating that actually they are not as good as they appear let's say that probably we shouldn't call them antioxidants at least they are not antioxidants always so we probably should refer as redox active compounds and sometimes they act as antioxidants depending on the concentration the dose and also the circumstances and sometimes they act as per oxidants and something that making is making everything even more complicated is that sometimes they're proxies and actions of some of those phenolic compounds can actually be positive in a way that whenever this proxy dance is in the body is sent in some kind of message to the to the to the tissues of that okay now we have to synthesize more endogenous antioxidant differences so a little dose of proxied and redox compounds sometimes is good so that to maintain and to keep a good antioxidant status in the body so everything is very complicated and for phenolic compounds it is really really complicated in that we have ahead a lot a lot of studies that we have to carry out to understand the biological effects of these compounds function so it's really important to to look at the complexity but also try to clarify sorry to interrupt in you that absolutely matter is absolutely rides it forever no it's actually fake transcription factors in Pro oxidants so they are effect on actually anti oxygen system not due to antioxidant property but more Pro oxidant properties that's there's a complicated scenes but we know that they're still important part of the animal nutrition thank you maybe we have another question ah what is a different between meat maturation and mid conservation now oxidative mechanisms involved in both issues and that's quite something very very interesting you talked about before meat aging with maturation so we are there are several several concepts and sometimes they are mistaken meat maturation or what we usually say meat aging is the period of time that goes from this slaughter to at the point in which we consider meat as such so something that we can eat or we can use as a raw material for producing some other muscle foods and then of course after a slaughter the meat is something that we need to preserve because it's a very easily spoiled by microorganisms so in a way that doing for trying to find the connection between the meat maturation and meat conservation in a way that during that period of time of meats maturation we really need to apply some kind of strategy to keep the meat in good conditions that mean that means that we need to control microbial growth that's the first issue and then of course we should also control oxidation need to preserve exactly so this aging is actually a very critical period of time sometimes is overlooked which is actually critical particularly for red meats because during that period of time there are a set of biochemical changes including for instance the proteolysis carried out by some endogenous protease that in present in the meat and that is actually making the meat more and more tender for instance this is called the tenderization process of meat which is actually we have to do anything it's just to let the meats H which is the this aging idea and then the meat will be more tender and so on but of course that the color is a different issue which is actually directly connected to oxidation to myoglobin oxidation so it's a very critical critical period in which we have set of biochemical reactions some of the some of them the consequences some of them are very good like the tenderization some of them like the sedation of the myoglobin is not so good because his turn in oxy myoglobin which is the responsible for the red bright color of fresh meat into the metal myoglobin which is responsible for the brown color of meat that has been aged so much waited for for a long time so it's a very interesting question but maybe also very complex pretty complex scenario maybe another question for from the web oxidative impairs male fertility what about female acid often question shows as family sweet defects and so on but what happens as a female even yeah if you look at the female level let's take the chicken first so we can have a look at the egg we put the egg into the hot sherry and during 21 days we will have a chicken so what's happened first of all egg yolk contains pretty high proportion of polyunsaturated fatty acids and those fatty acid can be oxidized and more importantly during embryonic development embryo synthesize in polyunsaturated fatty acids and the level of polyunsaturated fat is in the newly hot chicken is most doubled in comparison to say X so we're talking about more than 50% of total fatty acid in the newly hatched chick liver are unsaturated therefore they are very sensitive to oxidation we know that hatching process itself is a oxidative stress because we have higher temperature at the time of people we have oxygen coming in we have high humidity so this impose oxidative stress and therefore Xan talks and defense of the egg yolk could be a key to get a viable chick that's a one side if we look at the female side from the people South for example yes so also is under the stress in stress conditions and the as a piglet bores is also stressed and again high proportion of polyunsaturated fat is at the newly born piglet impose oxidative stress and they are very sensitive and therefore what they get they get an toxins from colostrum and milk and this is most critical part of the development of the piglet to get as much as possible into accidents to colostrum and meal however there are some restriction on that one restriction in terms that placenta is not good for transferring them therefore for nutritionist it's a bit of headache how to deal with it how to provide optimal antioxidant defenses for newly born piglet for newly born chicken or any other animals okay thank you very much Peter maybe maybe we have elastic question regarding the main stresses faced by young animals you talked about the cheeks you talked about the piglets yeah do we consider that the births and the hatching is maybe the one of the critical issue yeah actually when you talk about production commercial animal production economy so pole to the productions the stresses if we look at the poultry production stress is started from placement egg into hatchery during incubation period the hatching process is stress then we have transport or we have hold in time after hatching chicks are in boxes waiting to be delivered to the palty house let's announce the stress then during transportation especially if we're talking about about breeder chicks which can travel fuel one or two days maybe by playing between different countries this is a NASA stress then the placement itself in the poultry house with high temperature with high humidity and with changing all the feed because you know that you're in embryonic development last week of embryo development she can actually consume exclusively protein and lipids and when they face the feed in support of our house it's mainly a carbohydrates there are a lot of changes which are stressful then we have vaccinations vaccinations are also imposed stress then we can we mention already mycotoxins we can talk about other stresses like transferring birds from rearing houses to breed houses then coming to the peak production it's also very high stress because when we are talking about layers which can come 97-98 of leg in percentage it's a very high stress for sale ever because the most compounds of the egg is synthesized in saliva therefore as you see the whole process is a stress stress stress if we look as a pig side it's still the same because a time of firing it's a very high stress for sow then we have been in time so the weaning is a big stress for the piglet again changing from the milk into the dry feed which is a this transition period is very difficult in many cases feed consumption goes down and piglet can actually lose some weight then after that one we're still having some vaccinations a change in feed it's also stressed so to actually summarize the there are plenty also stresses in animal production we cannot avoid them we do our best to decrease those stresses but the nutritional strategy it's a key the nutritional strategy is a key because the most of an toxins important antioxidants are common with the feed and it behaves it optimal balance it will give us the highest productive and reproductive performance and high economical return thank you Peter so more question have been posted on the web so we will not address all the question unfortunately but you will get the answers in the days and in following weeks and bye bye everyone and looking forward to seeing you in December [Music]