[Music] some questions will be for all of the the panel others will be specific for some people some first question is going to be for it even if if can a European fit of organization the FAQ led to find standardization parameters to define sustainability well this is specific for you because you are working in that same and that's that's well thanks well at least not alone we do have global supply chains and FIFA is just one part of the value chain and when it comes to standard US parameters we have to say that is quite a burden and an issue to promote these standard as parameters to global partners and I want to make it clear an example when we talk about deforestation and we had that issue and when we talk about deforestation you have to define a forest and how do you define a forest and has to be that granularly like you have three trees in a radius of three meters that you call a forest and you have to firstly define or have to find a definition for you for certain aspects of of sustainability which means we don't have the basics right at the moment so yes FIFA can't contribute to that but we have to have the basic right and we can only do that over global partners so now more at a global question that you can answer all together probably with your own view so the question is what is the most important issue regarding sustainability in the short and in the long term and can legislation help to stimulate sustainability or is it more the market what is your view so to me as well okay well in in short-term we actually have to get our trade flows right again so that's that the biggest issues that we're facing right now volatility is basically the death sentence for any action taking in terms of sustainability so that way we have to face now in the long run we have to address our partners when the trade flows can are stabilized again we talk about trade flows to South America to the United States and to the Asian markets once that is stabilized then we can talk only to our partners it is again it's a death sentence volatility is a death sentence to sustainability best huh well so the question was what is the most important issue to tackle short term and long term well I would say every issue is important so that's not quite an answer no I think of course obviously climate change is really important concerning the environmental impact but of course we are talking about industry poultry industry and the objective but well basically the two objectives of the poultry industry is to feed the world let's say and to make money so of course the question of profits even though we talk about social aspects environmental aspects and it's quite linked to you you answer the question of viability price viability and things like that so money is still important but I think we have now to tackle all issue altogether or at least which have to try to I think I can't make any any real good comment on that because I'm not expert at all in sustainability in the modern sense the only thing that I hope for is that the public opinion can move back again to the questions of what is really important on the long term for the world and that is that is as you said having enough food for the growing population and coming to a efficient use of the limited resources that we have on globe that is in my opinion are the greatest challenges and hopefully discussion will get back to that point yes you are right so another question we we now we read the question sometimes this question is questionable but okay it's organic feet more or less climate friendly than in organic which is inorganic is not exists is current production okay you're that's a tough one but when we raise the question but organic or inorganic we should rather raise the question of how can we maximize output and minimize the inputs and for the time being I don't see organic being the answer to when when we want to feed the world when we have to supply certain demand I don't see it at the moment and it's important that we also understand that organic at the moment is a spot market and I'm also struggling with the term organic so that means that the other form of Agriculture is not organic and that is definitely not true so we have I think agriculture is followed as in the even sensing as a high quality standard we have the the good agriculture policy in place and this is absolutely good agriculture and why not proceeding with that okay if I may add something I think the answer depends on the scale that you are considering for instance if you assume that for producing one kilogram of organic weeds for instance is better for the environment or at least as less environmental impacts that's one conventional kilogram of wheat but then you look at the feed efficiency of birds we are feeding and you have not the same feed efficiency in our conventional poultry farms and in organic ones then probably the results is change switching from organic being the best to conventional so I think it's it always depends on the point of view you have and the scale you consider the sustainability okay so questions more for Roberto are there international values for sustainability metrics values for sustainability and it goes with how do you see the practical use of LCA in formulation ok first question is the what revrev what reference are we using I would say that it's like nutritional values Brazilian people they are using Brazilian tables American people they are using American tables French people they are using French tables etc so for nutritional value while basically for environmental impact it can be the same because well the results are presented are calculated from a French point of view using French LCA for feed stuff that we are using commonly using in France and so for instance if you consider the the transport impact to to to bring one tonne of soybean meal from Brazil to a French feed mill is now of course that not the same as bringing transporting this soybean meal from Brazilian crop from a Brazilian field to Brazilian feed mills so of course the the impact would not be the same in the matrix formulations formulation matrix so I think it's the best probably should be that every feed producers has his own matrix with it the the more the most adequate and LCA values for its context so if you are French people working with French feed production then you should consider French environmental impacts for foodstuff produced in France or at least brought to France if you are in the States then you can use a an American table so this is quite a challenge because that means that every country or group of country has to do the same work first but then it's quite difficult when you want to compare things because then you have difference that's the first answer I try to be short for the second one and how can we use that in formulation I think of course I show you how to handle both economic and environment aspects all together in formulation but maybe one first step is to just have LCA impacts as new criteria to describe your feet and then you say ok I formulate a feed based on this cost formulation I have the price of my feed stuff the characteristics of my feed stuff from a nutritional point of view and then I also have climate change impact energy use impact and then I could say ok now I try to minimize the price but then I would put a maximum contract constraint on the climate change so this is a first step and then you can try to decrease a little bit to climate change for instance and then step by step you can improve the environmental impacts of your feet Marcus specific question regarding your presentation if I work on ip6 effects on phosphorus utilization is done which other IPS are of significance I p45 read straw yes thank you this question cannot be answered 100% safe but because we we always enter digestive tract in the broiler trials that were done we always have this mix of effects of supplemented fiveaces and also the endogenous phosphatases but I think what we can say also including in vitro studies where endogenous enzymes were not involved that IP for most likely is the next candidate to look at so we usually do not see any problem with our p5 but it starts without before and of course it's difficult to say whether IP 3 or IP 2 will be a problem when I before I solve but the next problem to solve I think is our before ok thank you and a complimentary question of interest why not moving towards the use of digestible calcium yeah good question - I think we should move for more and we probably will move to digest will calcium as well the point is that it is simply even more complicated than the adjustable phosphorus you have seen you have got some impression on that in the last two presentations and in addition to that we have a lot of homeostatic mechanisms that are relevant in regard to calcium so the good point is that we do not have so many calcium sources from plant origin so that reduces a bit the number of raw materials that need to be evaluated we can focus on the mineral sources and also on the animal sources and some work has been done by what Rosalina angels lab and also the colleagues working with Raveendran in New Zealand about as far as I know they still struggle a bit in structuring all the results but yeah I hope they will succeed and that will become part of the problem of the program thank you thank you another challenging question for you Marcus which parameters are important to measure in a phosphorus requirement say yeah so I mean after having listened to Molly Pierce presentation I probably need to suggest the long number of traits to be measured as I said before I strongly believe in this modeling approaches so I think we do not should try any longer to investigate phosphorus or digestible phosphorus requirement in single studies but in terms of what is most important I mean you can you can always think about how how detailed all the measurements can be whether you want to differentiate between soft tissues and bone tissues and so on and so on but the most important point is for the for the growing birds the phosphorus or the calcium that is contained in one kilogram of body weight gained irrespective of in what fraction this is located so that is the most important that you we need all the other factors of the requirement can easier be predicted as long as we agree on it that just with phosphorus system as we did in W PSA and it shouldn't be that much of a problem for the breeding companies to generate phosphorus and calcium concentration data for body weight gain of their birds so they should supply us with this data soon and we can make better requirement estimates okay as a final question I we try to to put many Qwest many person generator for all of you in relation to the definition of sustainability regarding standards has been said before in relation to work for free-range growing chickens combined with another situation what is the compromise of the feed production for to achieve this standardization for these methods and why finally is the important question why we we do not we don't expect that soon to use meat bomb meals again meat bone meal so could you just the last sentence of your question it just repeat the last part of your question so there is questions talking about why it's not useful to range reduce now meatball meals as a criteria of sustainability yah I'm not sure if I understood the question correctly please forgive me on that so when we talk about protein sources that both was the question the question is dedicated to why sustainability in Europe does not give value to the rain to reduce the use of meat bone meal well that's a question that we have for society on such I think some of the summer in the 90s and we don't want to raise that question again for for obvious reasons especially as a as a food producing industry but yes you're right I think when we truly talk about sustainability we should we should have a look at those options again I think the talk about resource efficiency and this is the resources we have and we are not using to a certain extent or not at all so we might really reconsider our sincere but as again we are as an industry we just for the European Union see we just step away from that resource at the moment we're talking about true sustainability in the wrong one I think the ship is some thoughts to that option again yeah I totally agree from an economic and environmental point of view those are incredible feed ingredients that we could use to to feed our animals the thing is that sustainability is three pillars economy environment and social and when you are talking about social you are talking about consumers and citizens and I think after what Europe has gone through in the 90s with the mad cow disease and things like that I don't think the consumer and the citizen in general is ready to consume chicken or drink milk from animals fed with those kind of foodstuff because it seemed unnatural for our animals to to to consume those kind of feed stuff if you take another example insects you feed birds with insects I'm quite sure that consumer would say okay that's quite normal for birds to chew eat insects you do the same with dairy cows not sure the same to have the same results and finally I think the time is over but I have we have a question not coming from the group's do you think the sustainability it could be understandable by delegates from Asia or other countries in relation what we do in Europe ok can you repeat the question please dad I am asking or I am make a comment about what we did to this evening this afternoon about sustainability sometimes is can be understandable by delegates from Asia from other countries not European countries interaction what we European propose well it could it wouldn't surprise me if we have people in the audience irrespective from where they come from but probably more from outside Europe will not understand the priorities that are set I totally agree with that I think it's sustainability concerns everyone I think in the world especially dealing with global issues like climate change for instance but on the other hand priorities are not the same in developing countries or in Europe or in the US for instance and I think one of the key message of when talking about sustainability is the compromise and today for for developing countries it the objective is to to to have enough food to to produce you to feed their own people and that's also part of the sustainability but that's a priority for for them whereas for European countries it's reducing the environmental imperative improving the welfare of birds or other aspects so it's all the time is about compromise ok I think it's a good word for the conclusion compromise thank you very much to our free speakers it was a very challenging and many thanks to all of you staying for this last plenary session of the day and thanks to the speakers to everyone and have a good evening and see you tomorrow [Applause]