[Music] good afternoon everyone so like has Pierre mentioned like so much you up-to-date you guys on some hot topic is regarding the trace mineral nutrition for Loyola breeders and mainly that we we seen from the recommendations are requirements like so that's a bit confusion like so most of times I see we are looking for the requirements but not what you see on the on the manuals on the NRC or and so it to mention that is like recommendations so anyway and a lot of those research quite old and so that with some updates are needed on that and a lot of those also haven't mentioned anything linkage to deploy any performance so thatís if I can bring some new insights regarding to the trace mineral nutrition and as you see from this table so you can look at for examples again the same confusion regarding if is the recommendation or is a requirement and so most what you see that some of those data that we particular see on this table so that some of them there's some recommendations but there is not some research-based to come with those numbers so and another important factor is that especially for the European community that is some regulations regarded to the the use of the particularly some minerals in some of the high have some limits and especially if you talk about zinc so we have like the limitation for your abilities fabulous is about 120 ppm at the completely analyzed diet so it's not just not to talk about supplementation and if you see from the previous slides there is some recommendations of supplementation like from above for example hundred and 10 ppm supplementation form for zinc and so it means that with the addition from the the the presence of the those trace minerals in the Hermitage like soil wheat and corn so you'll see that when she exceeds the limited for example 123 p.m. on the analyzer diet in the in the complete field and also other limits for example for manganese we have like about 250 and co-op I specifically also has a lower limit of 100 and sorry in 25 and so in some air all the areas in the globe a lot of time we see those numbers exceeding up the the levels of 100 or 125 ppm of the inclusion of copper in the in the diet for Ireland there's no limits and also for Salinas there's some limitation and so focus on the on the trace minerals for from bleeders and so it's you don't have much research on that and like so and so most the time why why don't you use commercial layer data which is like in general a bit cheaper to to get this this trial Don and then be able to use that information but if you look to compare one egg for commercial commercial layers and them for the blood lipids there is a very important factor which is that development of the embryo which is on the commercial egg layer there is no need to feed the envelope that's the case and also there are some other factors as well like so for example that is you can use some information from the commercial layers regarding eggshell or eggshell membrane but there is some other factors involved on that factor regarding for example commercial layers are known controlled feed like so they have ad libbed to feed so all the time so I compared to the blood leaders so they are feed control and also they the commercial layers day but you don't they egged on each be fair tire of carcinogen a good quality of a woman called good part of the yolk for for get like a long storage but the tactic don't need to be store Donita mr. tire and also they don't need to supply nutrients for the end of development and so why is that very important to supply this amount of minerals should the today egg in order to supply for the envelope if you see in this table so you have the the composition of the egg like so regard the macro minerals and also the trace minerals and mostly of the trace minerals that is present in the in the egg is there actually is in the yolk and most of them there's a there's a reason for that because if you see if indeed the next pictures so we're going to see a picture of like the aim to develop the skeleton of the embryo development from the eleventh 8:13 in about day twenty and so in this case you see in this picture were to see in blue there are membranes and cartilage and what you see in red so they are more the kind of ossified regions of the bones and in this case at the day eleven you see that there is not many ossified regions in this patient along bonds we have some on the wings some on the on the legs of the of the chicken embryo but not much at that moment and but you look at quickly on the two days after they on the stage of development you see like a date 13 so like how quickly the bond is being started like in this case become red so it means Morris fight and so it means that they're quickly absorbing a lot of those nutrients especially from the yolk in order to started the ossification of those wrong bonds especially in them on the next picture see like a picture day 19 1/2 of incubation so we see that the skeleton is pretty much completely ossify did you see small amounts of the of the cartilage mainly on the trachea and also on the joint of the bond and it means that they at that stage the cheek is that is already strong enough to break the egg shell and Victor chelina come out of the eggshell and professors they have a unit did a interesting job like saw where she evaluate the amount of the minerals are remaining in the yoke towards the during the incubation process for example she she evaluate like the eggs at the zero in them and like towards the end of information and so she also evaluate that and I think she's going to show more of those results later but just in case in this in this graph that you see is like is showing that on the relative way like so for a hundred percent that was those minerals that were present in the yolk in the beginning of the incubation and how much has been utilized or how much has been left in the residual yolk when the chick hatch and in this case you see like for example copper there's not much copper left in the residual York at the end of incubation also the same case for Ireland seems in same case for zinc and also phosphorus that's like maybe four or five percent of those levels of minerals that was in the beginning of the incubation is left when the chick hatch manganese you still have a little bit more like dwarfs maybe still 15 2015 percent has still being present in the yolk but look at the calcium calcium like from the amount that they start in the beginning of incubation so they still have a lot of sixty percent of the cows who has not been utilized by the by the chick embryo so it means that when the chick hatched they still have high amounts of calcium in the residual yolk and if you compare this graph here you're going to see a line the black line you'll see the the lives of cows in the beginning of incubation and there at the end so that they start with about thirty milligrams at the beginning of incubation then finishing with about twenty milligrams at the at when the chick hatch in them but look at the case of the zinc so if you see the zinc started on the red line so zinc start for about one milligram in them at day eleven so that they quickly start decreasing the amount of the zinc present in the yolk so what that means so that if you connect to those three pictures that I showed before so you're going to see that like so that's a high correlation that the the minerals disappear from the yolk so especially from day 11 onwards in them they are being deposed in the bonds so that from and then I forget at the end of incubation particularly there's not much left of zinc inside of the residual yolk and there's another paper very recently now released last year that was showing that the levels of minerals doing the incubation process in this case they show of a two-day seventeen and a half so we're just showing that even the calcium levels on the residual yolk also increasing and so like so that is you see the force was going down the sodium particularly stable and the potassium particularly stable not much change but the calcium even going up so how do you explain that and so if you see in this picture here so you're going to see that there's the the structure of the eggshell in them you're going to see also they the membrane that's attached to the eggshells which is the base of the deposition of the crystals of the eggshell and so in this case when the cheek the dam we start developing and so that they are being swimming in the in the woman and us on the emini are clicked and also the yolk is loose in the in the liquid so that the the yolk is attacked touching the membranes at which touch also the the eggshell and so there's a lot of transfer of the calcium from the eggshell passing through and also deposit in the yolk so that white you see a lot of this data that's showing that you have increasing the level of calcium the yolk even at with the process process of incubation and of course they skeletal development of the embryo and discussing the situation arose so that there's a lot of issues that if you don't have enough of those trace minerals and to support the dynamic development you're going to see especially a lot of early dads on the end also to see a lot of late dead especially so if you need to make sure that we have enough to the amateur start developing and so on and them of course you need to have enough of those minerals to in the end of incubation for the for the embryo to be able to be strong enough so to survive and so developing how the organs and so be able to especially be able to break the egg shell then come out of the egg shell and of course being a good chick palatal don't want wait be chicks we want for sure that want more of the grade-a and so coming back to the to the fact of the trace we are the trace mineral requirements that there's very important work that has been done by the team in brazil from the professor surge of the year in the university of hyun-soo so where he already has some three papers out on the requirements for copper iron and zinc and so he's working on the fourth one on the manganese so that's a very soon that we're going to have be is going to be published as well but what he found it like specially i'm going to go through of those mainly about all those research that he did was like he find a way it should find like aloe rama cheese with lower levels of those minerals that is going to analyze and then i also use as a house copper sulfate or iron sulfate or zinc sulfate as the source for doing editor supplementation on the top of the basal diet in this case i have copper and then he did several regression curves what you're going to see in the next slides you might see some information regarding the requirements using some of the quadratic polynomial regression curves or broken line polynomial or regular block in line and also some exponential regression curves and i'm on this other graph is going to have the equations in the r square on those so that you can correlate the two because some some numbers can be very different about party chose regression curves and I seek with the r-square that can help you too - probably utilize some of those information better which have higher confidence in this case you have copper in egg production so that showing that like the different levels for example coming from different equations like we can have the requirements from about six like from exponential in 7.28 for the broken line quadratic in them twelve point nine from the polynomial so this is something can be some nutrition is like those numbers to be more edge so that they can be more towards the lower levels but some nutritionist wants to be a bit more conservative so that they want to use the higher levels so that in this case just show some possibilities on on the chiles ation of those numbers in this case you have this range from 6 to 13 for copper on the egg deduction but also there is some odd information regarding copper in the concentration in the plasma which is very linked to the concentration as how much more having the plasma more opportunity to transfer should they should the egg yolk and which you're going to relate to the development of the embryo in this case was towards the higher size with the the the requirements in about 15 to 16 and which also linked to that I just mentioned for the egg yolk so that you see the requirements around 15 and which also has an important factor because if you if you talk about the eggshell membrane so is every single it's important to have like a good levels of special copper and the manganese in order to make the cross link for the collagen formation in them so which is going to be the base of the eggshell deposition and in this case we have again some other variation extracting gold more edge on a7 and also 14 on a conservative way for iron there is an another publication so that from the first research the others team and also that is showing and we're going to egg production there's the recommendations on the the requirement is on the like from 76 up to 97 and so for the higher numbers of hatching eggs and also also there's the same kind of requirements for the presence of the aisle in the egg yolk so which is very important especially for the development of the chicken get the good cheap quality especially what we what we did measure was we did some measurement on the thematic wheat from the hands and also but can be related to the matter crete and the mobile bean levels in the in the cheeks so it means that if you have higher capacity to transfer more island should the to the egg so that you'll be able to have at a higher part of the cheek as well so in this case or i put in this table just to show some kind of summary of the qu the broken line and quadratic polynomial and exponential values that we find for a better a matter creating the mogul being levels which is in this case showing that like on the high end of the curve and so which means that for egg production you can go if you mainly focus on direct reductions all axis around a hundred ppm of the on the total completed diet but for the for the emblem should get like a power Belichick part so you should be in on the high Abbott higher side in them we have the work has been done with zinc so that also that they evaluate from levels from 2012 20 ppm until 180 and so that against additive on the requirements that they found for egg production was between 60s for in 116 which is a bit wide to again the same kind of explanation you have some two different regression curves or if you want to be a bit more edge so feel just like that you can go on the lower side of the requirement but in this case for eggshell production so that like the mostly of the shown that towards the higher end so that's showing like the requirement should be around 120 to 140 unsaved in this case and so which makes sense because zinc is very involved on the on the formation to eggshell but with the energies carboxylates environment which also will in kitchen with the eggshell thickness as well like so they want the product to pull no curve so showing that the requirements were about 126 however on the exponential so that we get a comment on a 64 so that's the research there was and if you evaluate the beta strength so you can get the levels of requirements that are found on those research from 96 and up to 161 regarding the manganese so again like as I mentioned that the team in Brazil already work on this on this paper now we still don't have those results and but I have like some results from the High Line Brown layers that has been done in China and I can I plot some of those graphs to specially related to the eggshell and the eggshell membrane will again so as manganese is very deeply involved on the collagen formation which is based of the eggshell membrane and so here's some results that I think we can be utilized in why we don't have much information valuable eaters so that's showing that the as there's a straight correlation with in this case they are evaluated they eggs at the 1662 weeks of those High Line Brown and then they saw that there were the higher levels of manganese like towards 100 so it's already got a higher breaking strength and we repeat with repeat with the eggshell thickness on towards a hundred as well and pretty much form the same kind of trained with the eggshell elasticity and also on the window gasps dick in amount of the manganese present in the eggshell so on the lives of 50 is already reaching the highest level so and also that is us I don't have much information on that but the whole platform next I believe for the next year already have this information out so that probably in the next symposium be able to present that as well and also that is the other opportunities which are they they what I call the complex mineral so that where we can use the the different doors for absorption of the nutrients so in this case if you see that is the door for the inorganic is check passed on the on the transport and then some be absorbed and also there is different doors of absorption in this case we can use different doors where you kill eight or you complex those metals with the amino acids and so that we can use the the other door so that you yo passing the minerals true binding to the mineral so that instead to use the inorganic transporter you use them amino acid transport it should be I'll push this minerals to the to the body and in this case so like there's a trial that that has been done in the USA however in the looking for more European conditions so in this case there's some of the limitation on the on the zinc in this case so if you can see that there is we the labs of supplementation was about 80 ppm so that counting with like maybe 25 30 ppm around a row Machida so you get about 110 of the total completed diet and so which fits in much should the European legislation in them we also did also a kind of a mixed like so using part of the in organ to source and also part of the the metals binded to the amino acids and then also likely to change a little bit of the strategy like so okay like so why not use the supposed to be higher more available source of minerals so why don't choose in the lower level to see how that the performance of those birds can be and so in this case looking on the on the egg production article there was no differences in any point of the the trial so industry was also done with Ross 308 which is like the most common bird breeder here in in Europe and so but there is particular from we did the tribe from 24 to 40 weeks and so that's particularly no difference in egg production but what we saw some the important factors was like the hatch ability of the eggs so in this case we did some three incubations like 30 35 and for two weeks and so where we didn't see any difference effect at 30 weeks but at 35 weeks again so the combination of using the kind of both doors like so using the inorganic door and also using the amino acid transporter door so we all able to have like a higher much ability especially in this case here to build those fertile eggs at the 35 weeks with statistical difference but at 40 weeks pretty much the same kind of numerical trend but there are some issues on the incubation that the eggs was overheat at the end of the probation so that we lost the statistic effect on that one and evaluating that was I showed the correlation before like so if you have enough of the minerals transferred to the embryo and so that the the higher chance of survivability of those and so in this case we evaluate the the embryo mortality in the acidic at the early death there is a statistical difference like so on the reduction on the when we use the combination of inorganic and the complex one so you're able to get a lower especially early death and also we saw some difference on the late dead mark in this case at the incubation 35 weeks in diem we had incubation for two weeks that is like that again as I showed I was like overheat on the machine so that looketh was higher mortalities passion delayed they had like so that we have about seven to ten percent mortality that we could not control that that moment and from this case like so just summarizing some of this what you see from this information from the group number see that they will show the requirements on those copper iron in zinc so that that average of those trade those traits that they evaluate during the the trials so that they get the copper requirement will be about twelve and a half for Ireland the requirement will be a hundred and six and from zinc the average requirement will be about 72 from the particular traits that they evaluate but in them flick compare like what the supplementation's like so in my case like so as like work on the mineral recommendations so if the on the supplementation level so we could go for example from 10 to 40 in and 70 for coppers iron in zinc in this case if you have a situation of more challenge like so hair like some disease challenges and so on so that it probably be able to boost a little bit of more the immune system with a slightly higher concentration of those minerals and against you if you compare to what the Builder lines are recommending so that some of them are not fired for example coppers on the line and irons and primatech on the line the zinc was like as as the some discussions early on with talking about the turkeys so that also might be some opportunity to to push to decrease a little bit of what will recommend and from the trial that we presented so like that the lives of alien of supplementation so also show that the performance was not in was not impaired and from the other ones for zinc for manganese for selenium in for iodine but you don't have much of the information now but I just want to point that out you that's also opportunites for we'll valuate the the requirements for cloning with something that's new that coming out and there's we seen some opportunities to work and discover the requirements for chromium as well so summarizing as I just mentioned there's opportunities for to review the recommendation of just minerals for Bradley readers and especially now the world of phytase now so that there might be some opportunity for evaluate like some with the regular dose super dough's and so because there is a lot of the trace minerals that's being buying should affect the phytate and so like might be some opportunity to even like a further down on the reduction of those levels of recommended trace minerals I also make sure that you have good mineral balance for the egg production in especially focus on extra quality in the eggshell membrane quality and also proper nutrition of the embryo and high quality of the nutrition of the bead is well justified so that like so especially for their economic inviolate curve value so that like so they really require higher levels of quality romich in order to be able to get a good egg production but also be able to transfer to the emperor they have a good hydrogen so in there also combination of inorganic sources are also with amino acid complex and metal so that also can be a good opportunity for improving the performance of the word stroke so if that I'd like to thank you all for the attention and so and I'd like to entertain in Thank You Leona divorce is very comprehensive review on trace minerals submit now the paper is open to discussion with a room so it's the occasion to express yourself any question you see the relevance of this paper with the next ones and so on so I think it's very interesting so when you look at the different criteria you show that different model different criteria can give different requirements can you hire guys the different criteria to really define the requirements especially especially for each mineral they have particular some important effect with some special traits from the on the breeder production for example is copper manganese they're very highly function is on the eggshell membrane development so that's that's some points that we need particularly pay attention like so zinc is important on eggshell the position so the crystals affect shale formation so that mostly of those where those minerals has more of the importance so that we need to evaluate that like with more a big criterion that one and from what they have been present they evaluate several variables and so they have a lot of the equation curves for a lot of the variables so that we can particular put that on your model and so that you always can find the precise requirement and also which is great so that is a lot of tables and those papers that like sometimes very difficult to just pick one or two that represent here so it's interesting to focus on the broiler breeder but what is a ration ship now between the what you define for the breeders in which we should define for the next phase in the broiler growth after so I'm sure that their work could complement later on but I think it's important how can we define the requirement of the broilers after depending on the breeder a great connection because that's we recall the pigeon ethics like so that in each particular gate get more involved on this like what you feed in the breeder so that's the effect that just we passed through the developer forms there are some work already out but of course the have much time to present here but there is some work that's very interesting we see that the feeding the breeders depends what you feed them so you'll be able to get some benefits on the farm instead of the dollars a coin yes one question here thank you Dr Lin RS as I understand correctly you believe that the absorption at the scenario for absorption of trace mineral in the organic and inorganic source the same you believe that the absorption of organic and inorganic source is the same as broiler employability but in my experience we give to the brilliant readers the limited amount of feed once a day yeah I know there is enough time for absorption of minerals in inorganic sources how do you interpret this because they have enough time and the pH of the gastrointestinal of the broiler builder is lower than Reuter it's higher than the bill how do you interpret the pH indeed the Braille readers are higher because the high amount of calcium that they have adverse when they receive the feed the pH is higher after that is lower I measure many times that in organic source converted to an organic source in the pH of the desert so for the build is a hard work because what happens in buildings so that as you said they eat in the morning mostly and then they have to pretty much restored everything and then then later when they are particular put in they put in the egg shower for forming the eggs so that is they need to get from what they have on there is only the reserves and so it's very difficult to track so forth for us to do this kind of evaluation so that need to put a label on those matters and try to trace them in the body so that is it's a very distinguished research that research that I would love to do that but very expensive like say is there any data about the amount of mineral excreted in the feces of probability and compare the organic and inorganic sources I don't I don't have information on that I'm sorry but that's going to be we we're trying to do some evaluation now with copper that is something different but that might be good information to come to investigate from the village children thank you I think it shows that the more work to be to be done on these trace minerals from breeders and so on so I think it has been the very poor investigation for years and you but more to do on the topic so Thank You Leonardo if there is no good question thank thank you for your presentation I have a question regarding trusts mineral impacts on touch health especially iron because it is well now the implication of iron for the crowd of Ontario bacterias especially ecoli and in a context of producing without contributed antibiotic free antibiotic free so the tendency it should be normally to lower the level of iron to to stop the promotion and the growth of inter bacteria especially Ecoline I'm glad that you did this question because like I should mention a little bit on that and this is very important specially for you analyzed before you talk about supplementation which analyzed your raw materials because if you see different sources and worldwide like so special limestone and phosphates you're going to see a lot of sources a lot of content of iron on those sources so that means that like so just deployment ation sometimes might not be the cause of defeating the bacteria but like so maybe other sources that you have from coming out from limestone in phosphate also quality of the water as well and sometimes you see a lot of that regarding to the supplementation mostly like so we are particularly moving towards like avoiding because of the avoided supplementation of inorganic source because you already have a lot available coming out from the other raw materials so that we're shifting now towards more supplementation of only they collected sources which is like so is the iron still binding to should the amino acid so that they not be available to the bacteria so instead of that going to transfer straight to our absorption sites in a different way thank you sir I think we need to move on so join me to congratulate again Leonardo [Applause]