[Music] so good morning everyone and good morning your Hank lesson and Ginny Aurora I'm really pleased to welcome you here at fit channel and I would like if you could summarize what you have shown yesterday during your presentation maybe your journey you start thank you look thanks for the opportunity what what what I was trying to explain yesterday is a little bit of a different spin on on nutritional appetites in in birds or in in in poultry and that spin I guess is I'm trying to to look at these nutritional appetites which I'm assuming and I have good reasons to assume that they are related to nutritional requirements although they might not be exactly the same but I'm I'm looking at those nutritional requirements if you want from an animal perspective rather than from a classical nutritional formulated type of approach so I'm looking at the animal and I'm letting the animal tell me how they feel about it what what's their specific appetites what would they like to have and that might be answering some key questions which are very practical such as I was talking about feather pecking I was talking about differences in growth fast growers slow growers why is that happening and I'm type taking the approach of letting the animal tell me what what what what suggest yes ok thank you very much maybe youngkyu can summarize it thank you very much for having me as well I appreciate it I was asked to look at feed in taken in broiler chicken specifically to try and understand factors that influence that they could be used in practice it was huge but an applied talk one of the things to to ask is why is feed intake important as feed intake is if you want to maximize the genetic potential of the animals that we have available to us we have to make sure they eat sufficient feed and so that's really the premise of of the talk and the reason for doing it so what I try to do is cut look at it under a number of different parameters looking for nutrition factors in nutrition that might influence beyond absolute deficiencies and and toxicities that might be there with excess I was trying to look at more practical kinds of ranges of nutrients then looking at environmental factors and then finally disease and how it might have have an impact as well thank you very much for this rapid summary but a most presentation were very interesting very informative with lot of information I have a quick question for you how to motivate birds he's trying to learn you how they perceive the feed and so on how can you influence the burnout to motivate the birds to eat you know in our industry - it was what they would say what we are proposing to them you know yeah and that's it that's actually the key aspect the way I look at it is birds like most animals have evolved in the wild yeah therefore their their mechanism their physiology physiological metabolism has evolved to survive in the wild and that includes the capacity to select appropriate diet and appropriate feeds all right so that's the principle now because of the commercial production quality production they no longer have the option of choosing young therefore they have no choice yeah feeding system so it's up to us to select what we're going to give them so my point of view therefore is looking at their behaviors so we could eventually learn to give them a good choice you know rather than based our choice only on performance parameters and in economics which obviously yeah than simple well understood it's working it's working very well how can we improve but we can improve if we have that additional aspect of say well what is what is the animal perceiving and now is that perceiving and what is that mean that they have that specific appetite say for alanine we were just chatting before the interview about Alan why do they have that such a specific appetite for alanine anything that we need to understand that right so that's a bit my point right yeah thank you you mentioned yesterday different component of the feet you know like energy energy USC's fibers and so on today what is a driver of appetite or travel driver or feed intake well I think from a broader perspective the the driver is genetic potential for growth yeah and so the drive is to eat as much as you possibly can and I think that that's what why a lot of the common beliefs that we had about what influences feed intake aren't quite as valid today as they once were and so trying to rely on things like energy intake to to tell us what feed intake is going to be is not not appropriate anymore we have to yeah actually model the energy and amino acid requirements of birds and and feed those levels rather than trying to you think that Zetas change with genetic progress the perception of energy amino acids and by see any moon I'm not sure about the perception to some degree they're eating as much as they possibly can but certainly the quantities of these materials they they need and the relativity of energy to protein I think there's no question it's changed if we look at breast meat yield yeah and rotors we know automatically if you're depositing that much protein you have to have amino acids too for protein synthesis yeah I think but we also heard a lot about temperature and and the the temperature output of modern genotypes and so I think I'm looking at a situation and where temperature might become a limiting factor that keeping birds cool might be it might be an issue question for both of you in fact the question of ambient temperature how that influence the perceptions of the nutrients of perceptions of the attractivity of the feed you know maybe the the ambient temperature within films quite dramatically the the perception by the animal no yeah that's that's I think quite the good hypothesis yeah it is obvious and correct me if I'm wrong but I think I you mentioned that yesterday one of the main impacts on on on heat of heat stress would be on feed intake yeah so it drops quite significantly feed intake and therefore whether that's something having to do with perception I don't think no one has been looking at it that I know of there's obviously another reason why you would see that but this complementarity in what we're doing with what would be you mentioned that obviously we have one freedom to give to the animals so obviously we try to make something which is a good form for the birds and so on we have one difficulty in the poultry industry is every diet changes you know in some case and I've heard from people from Asia and so on sometimes it takes one day one day enough to really recover the normal intake how can we help the animals on that because we will always change feed and you don't have to change it abruptly there are systems they cost a little bit of money yeah but there are systems where you gradually can introduce diets into into a feeding program so if you started with a starter diet you can gradually start introducing roar yeah same time and so in that situation you wouldn't have that that drop back and we've seen that drug a drop in feed intake after a feed change remarkable ability of birds to perceive their diets whether it's visual whether it's taste whatever it is they could they perceive very subtle differences and change it and but you if you're transitioning from one die to another very gradually I think you eliminate that sometimes we use whole wheat to do that yeah yeah that has been done and do you think in practical conditions how we could do that you know trying to have a smooth change maybe any practical ideas for that but I think it's a good way progessive changing so yeah look I think we're one one aspect that might be worth revisiting but you're in poultry he's using masking agents so using something that keeps the sensory aspect of feed relatively constant so that's masking some of these changes right it's a BT and that's been done more in in pigs than in chickens for probably quite clear reason why obviously cost related and so on but I think it's worth to maybe have a second look at that masking capacity of some compound you've mentioned yesterday about the behavior or the appetite and so on but after what we've seen in the afternoon with a micro biota do you think that some change in the microbiota would influence in fact directly the food intake you know through the gut brain axis and then influencing so maybe the choice or the appetite casino oh absolutely there's no question that that microbiota fermentation products they will have an impact on the how Birds perceive the quality and the nutritional quality of the diet and we know that particularly over the last six seven years it's clear that short chain fatty-acids are perceived we know that the molecular mechanisms and we know that they they do have an impact on the hormones of the hungry satiety cycles so that's very clear yes we know that that happens now that doesn't mean that when we we know how to manipulate it in in a good sense profitability but but we certainly it stays at least we have the the fundamentals now to approach the topic if that's of interest and you mentioned fibers yesterday insoluble fibers and so on with that influent not only by the deletion with that influence by influencing zagat micro biota influence a choice of you know the fares of choice of the feed or maybe something we can we can all of these things interact together so there's motion and when we start introducing fiber we have a couple of different things that happen yeah within soluble course fiber particularly is gizzard function which is part of the acid barrier barrier in the chicken and it relates very directly to the health of the entire digestive tract so I think that relates yeah soluble fiber side there are a number of issues there that could cause a negative effect if we're talking about arabinose islands or being blue cones we eliminate them within the endogenous enzymes some of the other products we can't can't do quite as much about to we if you're really worried about feed intake you wouldn't wouldn't feed those kinds of soluble fibers but I I think we really have to think about the total functioning of an animal yeah and you know I was talking about feed intake but it's only one part of the production indices and yeah it's the first step but you can't ignore everything else that's going on around them yeah question of sideburns yeah if you allow me a complimentary view which I 100% agree with you a complimentary view with which we're working on a small pet not as mobile as a project in humans and in looking at fiber enrichment of snacks and other foods in humans and yeah and the perspective is some of these fibers particularly soluble fibers will interact with some of these nutrients which we call taste active compounds and well the first obvious thing that happens with fiber is is a is a drop in the sensing it's a drop of taste and if you want fiber reach product usually is bit tasteless to us and that's one of the problems of the food industry that's probably true also in animals so fiber in some aspects may sequest some of the nutrients which are perceived as taste active and therefore making a bit blunt now in that's also true in the GI tract and now we're talking about some of these nutrients how are they going to be stimulating the receptors that will then signal the brain not the gut brain and its brain you might have a lot of fiber but it may actually happen is that some of the nutrients are not quite interacting with the receptors and the perception might be that there's not enough nutrients there so there's an impact by default of the fiber on nutrient sensing and that's something I think that we need to understand a bit better which is so quite a lot of research going on in in my Institute in Australia regarding that topic how fiber interacts with the first step I intake but it's very crucial and we talk about feed intake and we often forget water intake you know we don't talk very much how to motivate the animal to drink first because we talked this morning but day duration of the day old chicks when they are implemented it's a flocks and so on have you got ideas on how to stimulate them to drink access to lots of waters and yeah yeah you know I mean one time it was very usual to put down supplementary waters for young chicks and poles right they make sure they got water as industry got more efficient and larger sometimes those things disappeared but the reality is that's the most that's probably the easiest thing how else you can attract them to the waters I think it's a bit of a different question yeah there may be mechanisms physical environmental mechanisms that say this is attractive to a bird it's going to attract me to this place and then we get water I will throw a wild thought if you allow me to yeah yeah I think there's a there might be there a role for learning from mum yeah just sort of what's mom doing the reason I'm doing that is I'm saying that is because in our research facilities we are mum so we we teach the chicks you actually get access to the water and they learn yeah and they learn very quick but somebody needs to show them some of them they will naturally go and find it but this is others that if you teach them they do it if you don't teach them it may take a while yeah so mum is the answer so I don't know whether that would be practical at all middle-aged adult an adult bird out of I don't know it's a well thought so I know I know it's good it's good in small flocks in Saskatchewan they used to put chicks in with turkeys his turkey poults are even slower at finding water yeah all right there were being the mums yeah exactly so thank you very much for this live discussion and hope to see you more on fictional in the future okay thank you very much thank you it's been a pleasure [Music]