[Music] good morning good afternoon good evening welcome to all of you wherever you are every two months you have the opportunity to address some of your concerns from the practical issue to its scientific explanations with experts from all over the world from academia as well as industry each webinar will start with introduction of the free situations so testimonials videos interviews and then two well-known scientists will explain the fundamental basis of those issues and run table will allow you to give questions to our invitees it is our second fictional webinar today and we are pleased to welcome many participants and I just remind you that you can always put a question on the site during our program today and they will be addressed to our invitees over the last few weeks lots of communication publications webinars concerned gutters I'm sure that you know that this week is also organized the second international symposium on alternative to antibiotics and titled challenge and solutions in animal production it is organized by ata it is organized at OE headquarters in Paris and you will have the opportunity to listen to some participants on the fictional dot online but what does go tells mean why do we need to get rid of antibiotic growth promoters how can we efficiently replace a GPS how to develop new solutions what are the issues criteria when developing alternatives loss of question we need to address but how to start our animals are eating a lot today to support their genetic potential and their tremendous performance and the digestive tract users almost always challenged movers the indivisible fraction will give substrate for the microbiota in the ingot and we some time we focus for many years about feeding our animals on feed digestibility feed value and so on but should we should be more concerned maybe by the fact that we are feeding an ecosystem that's why nutrition ecology might be more relevant I'm pleased to welcome today professor Philip van Emison as an expert on gut microbial ecosystem good morning Philip which considers this got microbial ecosystem as a key mediator of intestinal else in poultry and professor Jo Newell who promotes the importance of gut inflammation to explain the benefits of antibiotics as well as to develop efficient alternatives kayo is unfortunately experiencing its own his own information and a bad virus today so any we'll talk from Belgium as far as a technique will work both Phillipe until will address what do they mean by go tells and how can we develop alternatives to antibiotics a week ago we interviewed dr. t-bone shrew from Nick science every group she explained how a GP ban expected by end of 2017 in Vietnam is an issue and how it is perceived in Vietnam so let's listen to dr. T borrow for a few minutes [Music] so I'm pleased to welcome today or dr. Tabar from mix science with sharing your life between the front and Vietnam could you tell us more about your function within mix ions dr.tofu well I am in charge of business and development and innovation within missed ions and by the way I'm a present of miss sands Asia for me science okay most of the Asian countries is the Greek user of antibiotics mm-hmm and could you give this more insight about the regular use of antibiotics either as therapeutics or a cheap easy yeah yes Vietnam is a very big consumer of antibiotics we can use around 1000 ton of antibiotics but year so you know why use are I would say antibiotics are busily use my family have it whenever their animals and have health problems the farmer Geonosis the animal by the eye and they treat the problems with the own kinds of antibiotics the doses and times are not respected so making the treatment less effective okay and you mentioned that the ministries MRD is willing to get rid of a GPS and in Vietnam and what is exactly the situation regarding us withdraw more of the GPS in Vietnam yeah yeah ma RDMA ith Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development Vietnam yes Vietnam you know recently has written inside a law to lower the level of antibiotics and limited only 15 antibiotics a GPS in feet so they ain't moving out of a GPS by the end of 2017 and fast to this situation I see you're the farmer the farmers are looking for alternatives know like propel take organic acid enzymes hubs but I see the most popular candidates for alternatives actually on the market properties and helps but you know there is no no single solution huh I see some some performance farms start on association between different techniques in husbandry and biosecurity measures water management and nutrition balance so in this case when the Mitchells well done the alternatives that the use of Antonetti's is more effective yeah so education of the family will be a key point to get rid of this usage yeah exactly exam do you think really feasible to have this withdrawal of of this ban of a GPS by the end of 2017 and what is the really the way to go away from the antibody can get not very good question because yes yeah I see Vietnam is willing to move away from a GPS in 2017 and they want they want to eliminate completely antibodies by form from 2020 but it's not quite a big challenge as you said before first we have to change the habits of farmers and I think the government should control you can decide the use the manufacturing and consumption of antibiotics on the market because everyone can buy out abilities everywhere very easy so it's a big problem I think it's feasible but it needs more time and a very clear roadmap - yeah ok thank you dr. Stephens oh it's very nice to have this view from an Asian country like Vietnam thank you thank you during the second conference on alternatives to antibiotics we had the opportunity to interview different participants from industry academia or professional organizations when Europe decided to ban the a GPS ten years ago they maintained coccidia stats but today in USA for instance a new antibiotic ever strategy means of the clean all usage of antibiotic in the whole production chain this is the first step in reducing antimicrobial usage the objective of ie with the partners wh o FAO is to reduce antimicrobial resistance and develop of recommend a prudent use of antimicrobials the conference review the potential solutions available today another development for the future to reduce the usage of antimicrobials in animal production I think works while to clear some issues and risk regarding the antimicrobial resistance to introduce our discussion today with Professor Philip animal cell in professor T renewal and the first question could be why do we need do we need to reduce the antibiotic use professor field believers in okay well I think that's that's equally a question which we are also antimicrobial use it should be diminished or decreased that is because you you really create a pool of antimicrobial resistance genes that is being present in the gut and also being spread into the environment and at the consequence of that will be at the end that a lot more bacterial infections will be not possible anymore to be treated both in animals and in humans so it's not really antibiotic residues on itself but it's really resistance that will increase and that needs to be controlled so that's why it should be well use of antibiotics should be decreased really that's a big concern and I think it's quite a good clarification on the topic when addressing hotels Philippe you mention the microbial ecosystem as a key mediator can you explain a little bit more Russian see between the feed the indigestible fraction and the bacteria yes sure so in fact when when feed is taken over the animals a lot of things that that happened I mean the gastrointestinal tract is quite long and first of course it's it's starting in the crop of the animal and I'm talking about chickens of control of chickens which already have some some minor fermentation by lactic acid producers that's going further in the intestine and at the end of a certain moment it becomes of course in the small intestine and this is really the place where the feed is digested by host enzymes and also where nutrients are taken up by the animal so that's where the digestion take place of course you also have many let's say non adjustable components that go further in the GI tract and then end up in the distal direct and this is specifically in the Sica of chickens where this is being fermented by anaerobic bacteria with the production of acids for example a short chain fatty-acids well known to everyone now it is important I think to note that there are quite a lot of if you talk about intestinal problems or syndromes in broiler chickens that this always takes place in small intestine problems with inflammation with these biosis or even worse with clinical infections for example caused by crostini perfringens a necrotic enteritis it's always happening in the small intestine which is the place where digestion take place so it's very crucial for the animal performance of course now the the interesting point is that what happens in the distal gut in the seeker so this fermentation of non-digestible substrates there by the bacteria and that that really has a very clear effect on the small intestinal permeability small intestinal inflammation and even small intestinal repair of lesions so that's I think very very crucial there so that of course also means that we can really well steer a bit the problems that arise in small intestinal tract by delivering non-digestible substrates to the bacteria that occur in the seeker and what happens there for example is production of acids and butter rate is very important one that has these effects on the small intestine for example also where it is produced in the hindgut okay so Phillipe when you talk about microbe your time what is a good or bad microbe potato for the question we have you know from the veal it's I think well many people like is probably a very complex reply to that because if you look at the bacterial diversity in the gut of humans or animals it's very very complex you have thousands of different species but I think you can probably really differentiate rather easily between beneficial and harmful microbes and therefore I mean if you look at the guts you have depending on the site where you are so small intestine do you deal in a union ileum or even the distal it does not affect seeker you have quite some variability in the Sica for example you have a huge number of different bacteria which will exceeds even the number of cells that are in the body of the animal of eukaryotic cells so it's it's a huge amount a huge diversity also but I think the very important component of the microbiota is really located very densely or closely to the epithelial cells and this is in well these are called amigos are associated bacteria they are very closely interacting with epithelial cells and they are delivering signals to the host and if you look at which bacteria are present of that specific locations so in the mucus very close to the epithelial cells often in cases of disease these are 12 opportunistic pathogens Clostridium perfringens is the most well known this is a bacterium that produces toxins and is causing for example necrotic enteritis I do in clinical or subclinical form but also a lot of members of the family of the enteric bacteria CI and these are for example it should be here coli and other potential opportunistic pathogens on the other end what you also have they're very closely interacting with epithelial cells or for example but rate producing stinky anaerobic bacteria and but your it is a beneficial molecule so that means that the balance between these beneficial microbes but great producers and the other ones really determines quite a lot on what is happening in terms of gastrointestinal health in any animal species so this balance is very important we should keep up the beneficial ones but the right produce is very high there and the other ones who should keep as low as possible so you really talk about ecosystem and my communica systems of feeding the microbial ecosystem how has the relationship between the substrate nutrient substrate polysaccharide web proteins and bacteria it's that's a very interesting question because you can really steer the microbiota composition to a certain level especially in animals that are not only performing well or having some intestinal problems and which means that they have some kind of a unfavorable microbiota shift which you can really resolved by by providing substrates so generally if you're just talking about what happens with feet you have of course the sugars the proteins and fat with sugars they are well affect the end products of bacterial fermentation of polysaccharides or short chain fatty-acids really and what really happens is that these polysaccharides for example pectins or unhappy knock silence even cellulose or other components they are decorated by certain groups of bacteria to produce a short chain oligosaccharides shorted oligosaccharides for example Arabi knox island oligosaccharides and on their turn these are used by other bacterial species to produce for example short chain fatty-acids aesthetic propionic but you rate also so this is important and this is a and phenomenon that is called cross feeding so it's different microbial populations break down a certain substrates and these end products are given to another bacterial population which consumes these products further to a certain and prouder product and that means that there's a network of bacteria present in the guts that really feed each other that's quite an interesting concept also there's there quite a lot of lactate producers lactic acid produces in the gut and this is also some molecule that is in fact on itself not really beneficial because effect it's a toxic compounds but when it is used by other bacteria to produce for example populate then it's also becoming beneficial so that's also some typical example of cross feeding network you also have always gas production during fermentation which is mainly also hydrogen carbon dioxide that are produced and again here this hydrogen can be consumed by different types of other bacteria and also there you can have bacteria that for example use it and produce let's say acetate for example these are called hydrogen atrophic as an organic bacteria but other bacteria under turn can use this hydrogen to produce for example hydrogen sulfide which is again potentially a toxic compound so there's some kind of a balance between you need a good balance between these particular species that three vert these different substrates too well beneficial or harmful and products we want metabolites and metabolize it or beneficial such as budget rate may be other assets and we do not want these metabolites that are potentially toxic the same can be said about protein degradation although in contrast to sugar fermentation there's not too much known about degradation and products bacterial and degradation then of proteins looking further into for example these proteins in fact it depends really on the let's say the protein source or the composition of proteins what the end products will be at the end but typical end products of protein degradation by bacteria are also short chain fatty acids but also branched chain fatty acids and also many different amines poly amines which are compounds of which some of them at least are believed to be harmful for the host so normally you should expect that these proteins or we've taken up early in the small intestine but when this is not the case and this is used by bacteria often this is considered to be not favourable but this is really something that is depending on the type of end products that are produced another example of this for example aromatic amino acids that can be converted to compounds such as in dolls phenoxy acetate so these products are also considered to be at least some of them to be not really beneficial or even harmful for host cells and then again this you also sulfur-containing amino acids methionine cysteine if bacteria use these they produce again hydrogen sulfide which is at the certain concentration also believed to be toxic so again there you have this balance between bacteria that that use some kind of compounds to produce more less beneficial products or harmful products so you need to balance it that's the theory behind what bacteria do with with proteins and sugars which is in general sugar fermentation can lead to potential metabolites of which butyrate is most important beneficial one Thank You Philip so if we understand well in fact the job of the nutritionist is even more complex we have not only do to feed the animal but also to fizzle microbiota professor new world tail you seem to focus more on inflammation regarding girls could you precise what you mean by that and what are you observations this what all this how they exactly work I believe that the basis is that they are anti-inflammatory agents in the first place you know information is the most important part of the intuition of growth for instance or the main two ways it works is that it will catalyze muscle and at the same time also of course in appetite so the impression of food intake how how do we know that we know that when we compare the relationship between the type of antibiotic and whether or not they have a direct anti-inflammatory effects as I indicated in slide to the tool there is a perfect relationship sort of means that did we have a strong indication that the actual mechanism of at least antibiotics those title biotics work through the inhibition of inflammation if we can look at how they are used in the first place they were used as the sum of each EP anti-inflammatory or no sorry anti microbial growth motors the anti-inflammatory effect is the main effect and since they have been outlawed people you know switch to the use of the same antibiotics or threat you two doses and then they still work also in an inflammatory bait but then you could call it a side effect but a very welcome sight in any case most the important point is both our growth developing and they have a strong effect on small intestinal inflammatory cells and as we know since very recently also on em suicides so till you mention that ant inflammation properties could help to define alternatives to antibiotic annually straight a little bit more on that potential I certainly can so the the main point I was trying to make is that the positive properties of certain antibiotics are based on anti-inflammatory properties rather than their antimicrobial properties so that means that in my view alternatives to grows ATP the antimicrobial growth of mothers should have anti-inflammatory properties so what we do our approach is we do a simple pre selection in vitro using an inflammatory si it's essentially macrophages in cell culture and we induce inflammation using an inflammatory agents and then add those compounds in in that way we can easily determine whether you know we have a promising compound on box we have selected a lot of different compounds as yet and for instance this one probably everybody knows fatty acid butyrate is one of the compounds it works very nicely indeed and then we also tested compounds and I just want to use it as an example for many others and it's what is in my slides about blue poppy extract so it appear to be from the individual sa a very promising compound so we went on contested in vitro in evo in wireless using as a positive before positive recycling as a as the could affect the growth remote and of treated ones and there's three different concentrations of the blue puppy expect and as you can see concerning the technical parameters this growth people version we saw a very nice those dependent growth amounting effect NP also whether it was indeed based on anti-inflammatory action for that we looked at the expression of i knows with short for inducible and all synthase which is a which is a very inflammatory cascade in small intestine so that shows very nicely that we have indeed group from both by inhibition of inflammation with also using for instance proteomics and we see since the same picture then what was very important to me is that you know this was have to look at intestinal markers display it is very cumbersome and very different so people looking for more simple which preferably no invasive fecal biomarkers are totally non-invasive so what I knew from I cooperate with human medicine below even what their friends in humans indeed it by oxidase in the disease of growth and it there it has a very nice correlation with the patient in the small intestine and it makes it work birth be the same as but humans problem with broilers is PR or chickens in general that they are very difficult so they're from the literature we know that there is one suggestive alternative which was Nichiren let's say the derivative of acid we have tested it our most recent results show that indeed the appearin works as a backup of supportive inflammation in chicken and it correlates also with growth on health and to be able to pretty soon sound 31 i would like to ask the last patient maybe to summarize what you mean by go tell syndrome may be one side yes to define good health but I think the most practical why is that good health means very low eco indicators of inflammation inflammation in a small intestine especially that is very central to good health overall I believe that's what is usually underestimated is the role of the host itself I know that there's a lot of talk about it is the role of the microbiota I'm more inclined to put the the the emphasis on the importance of the role of the host meaning less the whole immunology of the host in in the relationship between the host and the microbiota and I think I what I think that as a major argument that we can easily indeed see very nice relationship in anti-inflammatory compounds in feces and growth and health Philippe can I ask you also to summarize what you mean by good days and how to develop to develop efficient alternative solutions I think quite a complex thing to define really many different possibilities of course you can look at it at the macroscopic level just look at the gut wall and then if you don't see over the lesions or anything any difference between the normal condition then I think you can well already find us it's it's good gut health microscopically of course that doesn't mean that there's nothing potentially wrong so anyway you'll also have some kind of a microscopical definition I think what would say that you have if you look at the gut wall you have optimal villus length no inflammatory cells or at least a low abundant number of inflammatory cells available so no inflammation and a normal villi structure that would be of course related to digestion and you know the absorptive absorb the surface is then of course high but that's important I think all of course this is not something you can easily measure has already said this is something you can't really use field easily I think there's also something if you want to define cutoff you can also give a microbiological definition I think which would say that you have if you look at the microbiota composition but needle composition you have a high diversity so that this network of functions can be present to digest and product or substrate to an end product such as about your weight or acetate okay but also the microbiota composition should be as such that you have quite a high amount of anti inflammatory bacteria which are typically but related users and these are causing when an animal has inflammation these costs really dampening of these inflammatory effects and of course you don't want all these opportunistic pathogens expounding in colonization of the gut so you want as low as possible numbers of enterobacter see I crostini perfringens like organisms so that you don't have a lot of potential toxic bacteria being present that complain a lot of LPS but also produce a lot of toxins so these balance so I think you can have different definitions of gutter but this microbiological definition is also a good one I think and of course it's well it's not so easy to really define it depends on many different conditions okay thank you Philippe maybe it's it's time to let the floor to our participants and to the question we receive through internet so maybe you can start with the first question it's may be quite a general questions but what are in the usage of a GP what are a GP benefits what are the issues of their withdrawals I may ask maybe to Teo first to answer to that question I hope that connection with Laverne is still working table can you answer to the question benefits were promoted growth and health and also what it did was to keep the pathogens down so what we see is one of the issues of the word wrong is that we see indeed certain certain pathogens which benefits from inflammation in the intestine like for instance clostridia they are you know on the vice and that is not a coincidence so it's rather important that we still use certain compounds which are able to dampen inflammation to also announce to contain those peloton's and still this benefit growth health so Philippe on the same questions they use age of a GP and their benefits and their the loss we have with drew one which is your feeling on that okay well the benefits were quite clear I think they improved animal performance so which means they improve body weight gain also improved feed conversion and increased feed conversion so it clearly had an economical advantage so that's of course by the actual reason why they worked is not really too clear I think but probably they at least a suppressed part of the gram-positive flora so that at least you had less subclinical infections also which contributes to the economical advantage specifically I'm thinking about cost rudia again but also you had well less interference with nutrient digestion and small intestinal tract a lot more nutrients were available for the host in addition you of course and the inflammatory effects may be also either directly by the HCP so may be indirectly by suppressing the microbiota and this is not yet clear so the effects of which robbing would be in principle well again animal performance become a little bit worse but of course you have quite some additives to restore that it's quite interesting in fact you look at BOCES plates my computer in the information but so maybe it was a question from the web what are the criteria to take into account to set up an efficient AGP free strategy I think it's quite relevant to the previous question so I will ask kale and I hope the belgian connection is still working on that first question and the availability of really efficient alternatives and that has been I think monthly the problem with the old theory the the working mechanism of ATP networks based the anti microbial strategy surprised you that I you know I gotta say it should be based on the anti inflammatories theory so use components which have a proven effects on inflammation and I think that's the way to for because don't use proof and alternatives then I'll be tempted to go for the old compounds Sopheap the potential your potential answer on the potential crater yeah we should take into account to set up alternative program I think there are different things you have to consider their first of all I guess the the overall management's of the form is important meaning that biosecurity plan is crucial I guess I mean you have to make sure that the animal spends energy in not in combating potential infections so that's why biosecurity is so important you have to exclude potential pathogens keep them out of the flock of off the farm and also make sure that there's no spread within the forum or between different flocks so biosecurity is one thing secondly of course there quite a lot of possibilities to let's say stabilize the gut microbiota or even stabilize the gut barrier at least with a lot of different feed additives that are available on the market of which some are quite quite helpful I guess in really making sure that the bacteria that are present in the gut or really these ones that have anti-inflammatory effects and stabilize the gut barrier so they think are quite some possibilities to have an AGP free [ __ ] okay thank you maybe another question from from the web which is relevant to your boss presentation I would say see what by math curls could we think about to appreciate go text embroiders and maybe your one even more 4-4-2 how can we detect gut inflammation in gut problems yes presentation there is one in Broyles and that's a fecal or the executive members protein and a excreta and that's neo peteyrin that is indeed a right a rabbit methods meaning he will have the results in one day very simple you could just take droppings from a pen if for instance if you want to compare two treatments from one department you pick the droppings in the other one and then compare them so you will get your values in a day which will enable you to for instance make adjustments in the composition of feeds or orders any anti-inflammatory compounds etc so I'm very optimistic Philippe I'm sure that you have maybe different interpretation from day one with potential biomarkers and I would say I insist on the fact talking about or so practical biomarkers that we can use in the field I think you have some well you have quite a lot of potential possibilities for biomarkers for cutoff and basically when you look at the gut I mean the gut barrier is important so that means that epithelial integrity is important at the epithelial cells need to be very closely connected to each other to avoid that you have toxins or feet compounds leaking into the mucosa and causing inflammation that's one thing and secondly also you have to have closed epithelial barrier to avoid that all kind of proteins are leaking into the gut and this would also be an energy loss so this gut barrier is maybe 0.1 you can have you can detect some of the proteins that make connections between the epithelial cells and if you have a lot of gut damage for example you can potentially detect these proteins the tight Junction markers as it's as it's called in the fecal material that's one thing secondly of course you have these inflammation markers meaning that in cases of severe inflammation in the gut you have a lot of immune cells that secrete a lot of different compounds and some of them are really some of these immune cells they are really transmigrating and they end up in the godly man so and also will end up in the fecal material and some of these proteins that are inside these immune cells such as neutrophils it refills in chickens they are also secreted there and it can be found in the fecal material that's the second thing totally of course you have potentially also some microbial markers because if you have an unfavorable microbiota composition in the gut you would of course also be able to detect that in the fecal material this can be done by by DNA techniques very simple DNA techniques just quantifying certain populations or ratios of populations so in fact the most crucial thing I guess is really to have an easy field test at the end what would mean that you will need some kind of an well tests on fecal material allies a test or something else that is easily detecting these different markers that's a thing crucial we can't have some well test that we take a fecal sample we submitted to a laboratory and then have to wait for two weeks before we ever reply it should be something that is very fast reliable standardized and that's what we need to develop I think it's not really the case yet also because many of the many of the tests being developed for example for humans they are not valid in chickens because well she can same protein homologs for example subete a different animal you can apply that to pigs maybe but not to chicken so we are still struggling a bit with that but in the future it will be developed I'm quite confident how do you think it's possible to have this type of biomarkers ready to use in poultry production and only quite a rapid economic basis this type of biomarkers how far from now I think some people are working on it we are also working on it in our university I think it would be possible to have this kind of things within the next few years and they're ready to put a number on it maybe something like well two to three years if you are lucky and if you are unlucky ill something like five or six years it depends a bit how lucky we are with detecting potential biomarkers and identifying the good ones that's always a little bit of risk I think because it doesn't only have to work in the laboratory it's the most difficult thing Thank You Philip maybe another question from the web may be a tricky question should we look for more museum production or less for better hotels and I'm sure maybe looking at information we can ask do too consumer feels to that question do you I'm afraid I don't see the direct connection in museum and just health so I am not the person school yeah good maybe maybe Philippe you can react on that on the machine aspects you know I don't think I know the exact answer music production is obviously also sometimes increased music production is also sometimes a consequence of a certain insult pathogenic insult for example coccidia they increase using production if you have an immediate infection coccidiosis for example and death is then maybe linked to the fact that you know if you look at microbiota some of them can use mucins can live in the mucus one of the example of a pathogenic bacterium that can do that is Castilian perfringens it likes to eat mucins and for example that's probably the reason why if you have coccidiosis an increased music production that you have some kind of a predisposing environment or necrotic enteritis predisposing environment for the induction of necrotic and try this by Clostridium so that's one thing of course yourself other bacterial species that can consume mucus and also some of these are quite interesting some of these produce high quantities of battery acid you have some examples occurred Nancy is one of them but these ones are very beneficial because we as a host or chicken as a host provide them with certain substrate nuisance which enables these bacteria to live very closely in contact with the epithelial cells and they provide us with virtue rate which is a very anti-inflammatory molecule which strengthens the epithelial barrier etc which has very positive effects so it depends a bit on a situation I think in it depends which microbiota is present in the gut but in fact if you think about it it's a it's a very very interesting system in which we as a host give some kind of a feed to some bacteria that we need for an optimal guttural fitting it fits its amazingly interesting to consider that not complete for the nutrition is Louise I think maybe a last question from the from the web what about lameness can get as promoting compounds to be used to control emerging disease I'm sure that when we talk about lameness it's more what we heard yesterday about the contingent the conference about the translocation of bacteria from the intestinal area choose the rest of the body you know in respiratory tract in joints and so on and people are concerned more and more now on how your tails can improve or reduce this type of a translocation of bacteria directly from villi that's a good point I think this is effective emerging problem in the broader industry lameness and if you look at these conditions then if you look at well for example one of the conditions is back to your condo necrosis with osteomyelitis yourself spondylitis so different problems with bacteria that translocate from the gut to the bloodstream and then for some reason that shock colonize specific places in the body such as it joints these bacteria if you isolate them from these specific places they are mostly they re coli or enterococci and the center of conquer species there they typically Enterococcus echo room which is one of the Lydia you very often find there but these bacteria they all just got inhabitants so that means that they originate from the gut and promptly the sink got permeability or this epithelial barrier strength is really key also in this kind of disorder so when you don't have an properly functioning gut and you don't have a good good epithelial resistant so you know high permeability this cannot translocate and end up at these specific locations which means that for example with some with interfering in the gut with probiotics or other compounds that stabilize the gut barrier or modify the gut microbes in composition to a favorable one that you can also control diseases outside of the gut that's also fairly interesting that well bacterial signals in fact that you can steer with feet or feed additives can be altered so that certain syndromes or conditions or diseases outside of the gut can be can be controlled that's also fairly interesting concept so it's interesting to see how Gert else can influence in fact the global and subsea anymore so we should not separate the things I would say and really consider the heads as a global issue for the animal predictions so I think we have much more question but we will let me be the ants were coming on the web after and you will receive questions that we could not on square this afternoon Philippe and nto and hope you will be able to answer to our participants so to conclude I would like to warmly sunk out today speaker so tale from Belgium and Philippe from Paris I would say and also that turkey borrow and all participants we interviewed during the second ata conference who accepted to share the experience but also for your participation with your questions and so on we also sunk 88 to give us the opportunity to interview people during the conference and also the OIE organizer and the general director that we are going to have us an interview also on the fictional side you will be able to watch again the program and the frogs interview to the debate and also to put more question on feed channel dot online I hope you enjoy this second webinar on girls and I would say let's be addicted to our fictional Siri and I'll give you rendezvous next for the next webinar in February hopefully on the 22nd of February we will continue to focus on gut but maybe to be away from Philippe and so we'll try to focus more on the digestibility on the condition within the digestive tract but I would say now as a nutritionist we need to really look at a global issue but it's quite interesting so you will receive notification in due time and before to say bye bye to everyone I should not stop here in December before closing the seminar without wishing all of you Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and hope to see you all in 2017 [Music]