I'm pleased to welcome all the invited speakers I would say you know some had to leave due to you know the situation going to the flight traffic jam and so on and also because there is a special day tomorrow with celebration of the days of the king bumi ball last year so it's a long weekend and so people are expecting a traffic jam but I'm still confident on on the traffic in Bangkok when I would say we it was decided to to look at the cartels and you remember Philippe started the first slide with a slide on this gut contains own and these a mention of I / crates which is quite a long time ago to say life sit in the bar well and by decision is a root of the evil and he say else and disease sit also from the from the gut so it's a really an important topic and I'm sure even if a lot of people are due to you to live but you are still concerned by this issue and you can be persuaded that this week was a week on girls I just realized that this week not only the IC conference was organized here with forward seventy year participants there was also the beneficial microbes conference organized in Amsterdam exactly on the same date also another meeting on the animals feed and nutrition submit in Madrid in Spain and also a live webinar on our about feed to you today on the same topic so it's really quite interesting to see how many people came here to Bangkok when you have so many different conference on the same topic so it's a real important topic and unfortunately some people are not here for the run table but we can excuse them you remember for those who were at EC Jia last year in San Paolo I coated the Amy because at some time we had lot of topics on any any means for everybody what is the first meaning you think about when you talk about any you can't sew inequality can charities but in fact this year I think I should add another II with Amelia because we had a lot of talks on Amelia so I think now it's an but in that case translating that to what I said last year it may be more difficult so last year I say any is also nutritionally collusion and we heard a lot on the fitness the feedstuffs the additi that could modify the fit stuff transform some end product to prebiotics or some products that can be used by the microbiota and so on so I said last year we are really feeding an ecosystem and if I add another II I would say should say feeding an ecosystem efficiently and just to summarize what we understand by gut tells I think I can take the triptych that everybody knows you see the diet and when you talk about the diet you talk about the nutrients yeah you talk about the micro mic macro and micronutrients we talk a lot about additives and you have seen that people are passionate advise their product the anti-nutritional factors and the imbalance and excess and we had an excellent presentation to look at alternatives for feed stuff that is important we talked and it's important in the interaction with microbiota when we talk about microbiota in fact and house to mucosa which is easy animal we talk about an equal equilibrium when we talk about gutters and I would like and I plan to have two hour run table so at the beginning so to say we have time to dig on each part and maybe to review what has been presented and maybe challenge with a different short presentation to but we receive a lot of questions and first I would say that invited speakers you will be able to re-watch their presentation on the iseek platform and on the fictional platform that will give you more time to understand what has been shown but because I'm sure that a lot of people have seen that a bit too quickly and they would like to really listen to the presentations and for the question we received you will see also the Unsworth to the question on the website because too many question and some of the speaker have left to Unsworth without the questions today and on the microbiota we talked about cross feeding and quorum sensing which means some time a bit special world bacteria producing metabolites and they can feed each other so for the nutritionist is important also to understand how we can modified the metabolites produced by the bacteria to influence the other bacteria and quorum sensing we are the question on that regarding the presentation of yesterday to explain a bit better in fact what do you mean by quorum sensing so I think maybe we could start by this micro biota part and I would ask who wants to comment a bit more on today we look at the micro biota profile and I think we had an excellent presentation from a manufacturing CP about evaluation of the profile we are the presentation from Philippine reach on more the functional interaction between the micro biota would you like to comment on on that maybe you can about my party oh yeah today you are more looking at the microbiota profile and I think the complementary aspects may be so Oh actually I should not be the first one who went about yeah maybe maybe in that case Philippe if you want to it's yeah well didn't we get get the exact question but I think you mean that we are now looking at well if we look at for example effects of different nutritional strategies or fetal actives you always look now at we compare microbe microbial composition I mean we try to target or seek for species or ginyan of families that really are suddenly well coming up in abundance and as Rob showed there's quite a lot of variability and I think the redundancy is quite important though many different bacterial genera and families just have exactly the same function but of course well or difference if you do 16s sequencing you can have such a variety well you can have completely different microbial profiles the things are completely different but the function is exactly the same so I think that's that's some complexity we need to take into consideration so at the end I think we need to go to whatever kind of functional well functional I say not but just trying to identify somehow how we can well use some kind of tool that really determines the function of the microbiota not only just using well taxonomy yeah maybe yeah maybe statement also I think the time that we have to study all these difficult names that we haven't heard before is a little bit behind us because I think in the future we will talk about mode of actions of probiotic strains and and I think it's also gonna be more relevant and just looking at a certain species alike this was one question about these two bacillus subtilis strains yeah companies with two different mode of actions apparently so that that's an interesting thing so even when you have the same bacterium they can or same species you can have different functions and that that is very intriguing to me yeah one of the question was in fact when you look at the microbiota profile and you talk about genius genius doesn't mean anything I would say when you look at the precise metabolism and functionality maybe you have a commander so mostly I I start with the 16s metagenomic first I used this kind of thing for screaming I would say because I can use this sinc cuddle cuddle robustness I can submit like 200 or 300 sample : is easy for us to screaming but when we talking about functional it not I I cannot submit our 200 sample I have to select I have to select maybe 5 or 10 sample only just learn about a functional so I concern I concerned I know the bacteria that live inside second or ileum maybe they just stay there they're not working yeah I don't know they work or not but let me just they just say that so the important thing we have to study functional and also going to the metabolites but the thing is right now we try to use utilize using the 16s metagenomics screening and see something for and then we pick up the right one to study this is the thing that I try to set up in my leisure center maybe a Robert - yes sir so I think it's important we have to get to function obviously and and the most direct way to do that at the moment is really to look at the metabolome you know looking at anything from just a few you know short chain fatty-acids to the hundreds and hundreds that a lot of the technology can do now but there's still a challenge there because we can't then directly connect the metabolites back to the organisms that are producing those things I mean in some cases we can make predictions but in trying to manipulate that afterwards you really need to know the the organisms that are producing that metabolome and so even though the TAV alone tells you functionally what's going on it's still difficult to do anything with that knowledge yeah but maybe an interesting point we've seen in the presentation is you can classify would say a good performance and maybe your back performance with some profile but they are not the same between the ten chickens used so in fact it means that in fact maybe the microbiota of Percy is not a good signature of the functionality uh no III know that you are you Phillipe and about yesterday I mean it's a signature but the trouble is that there's not just one signature there's a dozen hundred you know I mean there's different ways as I said to get to the same end that's that's the challenge I think it's easier to define what's bad rather than what's necessarily good I think the problem is also you will be able to define microbial signatures for really pathological conditions for diseases what we are looking at here is something very very complex because it's just performing good and bad and that can have so many different reasons that it's I think it's impossible to have really a signature for that I mean that's probably the difficult thing you know because even in your studies you saw good and opt forming animals and we did the same group it in the same stable that are completely different so it's I think that's tricky I mean this is coming from the human side of course but they're they use really specific pathological conditions and then you can easily define a signature but for this it's not it's a syndrome or whatever or it's something else it's not a disease I mean just add that to make it even more complex of course you can have the same bacteria but in a different host or a different queue you can see different transcription profiles and so what could appear to be the same bacteria could be up or down regulating a net flux pump or a toxin or anything like this so the combination of as metabolomics next-gen transcriptomics it's a just makes reading a very very big computer yeah it's interesting in fact in the presentation or so the interaction I think I put pathogens we always talk about bacteria to bacteria but we are the presentation on virus presentation on parasite and there is definitely an interaction between the parasite and the microbiota and when we make the microbiota profile and so on maybe some time we should also evaluate the complete gut else including the paradigm because everybody says mmm their cross medium is always there but at a level which is not maybe problematic but it might influence the micro motor what are your comment on Sun the influence of the parasite of the pathogen I would say parasites virus and so on on the microbiota profile and on the micro biota metabolism so so it's very interesting with parasites especially if I'm area because of course it's such a strong immune response yeah so the time at which they're exposed to the parasite will determine when it happens when you have a sudden proliferation of the parasite you have the damage in the gut and then to a large extent it might be gone after week whereas we're talking about bacterial colonization and Clostridium and so on of course they made then colonize and stay consistently for oil before they obviously fluctuate and all this is going on when you can look at different host genotypes different parasite genotypes again some are more or less pathogenic so it makes for very complex mix we also had a lot of presentation on different products or solutions or interconnection between the Feaster the degradation of the attack so I put a statement here not a single solution lot of people say in fact you will not I would say replace antibiotic and so on with only one solution it will be when complex may be solution with different different possibility because you have different mode of action and could you comment on that maybe maybe Greg we're tested so many products we follow all the conversation it's it's not in good southern English so uh but the if your conversation here is what we use multiple approaches for control of anything particularly performance in the United States or anywhere else is you do have to use a multiple approach and I certainly believe that in digestion from the diets is probably the first approach for the nutritionist in a poultry company - Dan work with the veterinarian's - for these other products because that's really is the problem that we have right now is the nutritionists and the veterinarians need to work together to understand all this because vitamin I'm sure that they attended the same meeting so again I would think yes multiple approaches very important and then we were talking about the microcut area and i was thinking about that but virus time yeah so and I think today we talk also but the positive effect of virus sometime we talk about my room and what could be the beneficial effect it's not always negative we always think about disease and so on but our person in the gut we always talk about bacteria but there aren't virus there are different microorganism that can influence like part any comment on the impact I would say on a virus on the microbiota profile Michael better functioning metabolism that reside in the intestinal tract that cause no apparent example we also detect our viruses and host that are apparently healthy yes and then there are occasions where we have a breakdown in the GI tract and some of those viruses probably not the same strains of viruses cause disease so I don't know of any beneficial impacts of having some of those non pathogenic viruses in the GI tract but you know certainly it's something to keep in mind as we start to study and break down the by room should we take into account of i room in fact when we make some microbial profile in zone that's may be a demon I was gonna just add actually points to to you so first and that we're talking about viruses that might be acting in the gut on the host but actually password no the parasites have their own viruses as well so I'm area have several different types of viruses if you look to the similar viruses and other better to fight systems like Leishmania or Plasmodium we see some of those viruses actually make them more pathogenic some of them make them less for cont so the occurrence of a virus in Australian could actually change dramatically the profile you get from a pathogen that you think you understand good any comment from the audience if someone wants to ask a question and no problem we are open to the question because we receive a lot of questions but it's better to have question from the audience from the present people and one question so there were some presentations interesting presentations on microbial profiling so I am interested especially in Latino spy-rays here because in some cases are some species which belongs to lactose para are producing you trick acid but some are also involved in music degradation so what's what's your thought on that yeah it's probably very good it's not probably it is a great question for Rick I would say for Rick a few years younger well it's it's this museum degradation I mean that's that's something I mean you can have a thick layer of mucus a thin layer of mucus and we don't know what that means but mucin degrading bacteria it's degrading is maybe not a good word maybe just the host is providing nuisance to bacteria to be able to stay there and depending on which ones are colonizing there you have a problem because Tridion for example is the mutagenic bacterium it produces a lot of mutant aces and then if that bacterium is there of course it uses the mutant ages to break down new scenes to connect to the epithelial cells to make a lesion whatever to produce toxins but for these bacteria of course yeah the presence of mutants is good for the host because the host is providing a substrate for bacterias it's very closely interaction with the epithelial cells could use butyrate which is beneficial so it's really just a matter of yusin's musingly great degradation can be in fact a beneficial thing because some bacteria really are well sitting there very close to the epithelial cells providing good signals while others such as cost Rydia or doing the opposite so it's really a matter of and I don't know what is really affecting musical production for the rest I mean information is also doing that of course and that creates an environment with maybe an excess of new scenes that can be used by certain pathogenic strains but it's very difficult thing process yes yeah it's interesting because you make a transition with the host issue host because a lot of people talk about the improving the barrier integrity and it's always a funny aspect on it it has to absorb but it has to be a very efficient to avoid contamination and so on we talked about optimizing inflammatory status so anti-inflammatory properties and I think they might you mention also the genetic because we often forget the genetic issue can you preserve comment on the genetic aspect on the host reaction but of course it's interesting from two levels I suppose so in the commercial broilers obviously we have the mixed lines that come through so you can have quite a variation in the birds you look at that coming from different hatcheries different flocks different times but then there's also we're hearing about one health all the time and there's a real reservoir of untapped host genes in indigenous breeds around the world it's all backyards the traditional lines and so I think there's a lot of scope potentially for genes that could add and think like immune competence or one of the key factors okay good point and I would like to maybe to a end of the discussion on the diagnosis because a lot of people talk about how to really appreciate gutters we looked at the different aspects but how can we detect early enough that birds are in a good condition or they are moving well maybe your tricky condition well if I can comment on that it's I'm really frustrated when I look at the scientists because I am a guy from the fields and I'm still stuck with my scissors and my eyes to have a quick assessment of good health and that's what we have to work with okay and you've been presenting and impressing me with a lot of difficult words and a nice scientific work but it doesn't apply for people that work in the field yet okay so I hope that by next time you've got something for me okay that's that's my personal comment and it's it's still a hard work for us to do it bird by bird and and and subjectively scoring the very large flocks and Sonya so just reply to that from the scientific side of the fence and it always comes back to cost I think is the bottom line because there are those out there so there's PCR assays have been Fri Miria for example for more than 20 years but it comes back to the cost of preparing DNA running the reaction I mean there's things like lamp now you can do that pen side so there's lamp assays but again it comes back to the interest in the demand yeah yeah of course that's that's perfect for doing trials let's say on long term decisions okay that that works I agree and I also learned that you can estimate the age of a scientist on the costs of the sequences sequencing that they had when they started that's another thing but we need to also be able to react very quickly in the fields because the bird grows only 35 40 days every six hours that we lose it's dramatic so we have to have news yeah where we can estimate what to do should we implement an antibiotic treatment or a probiotic or organic acid or whatever I mean need to know that quickly and that is something that I might have to be cheap and cheap of course yes and yeah yeah and never forget that we are dealing with large flock of birds so even on the practical term it's quite difficult to do do it again Martin the difficulty here is just exactly the same as what I just said if you want to develop gut health biomarkers it's very very easy to do when you have a pathological condition that really have huge changes they do it in humans and whatever no problem at all but you are asking for a biomarker for performance no more or less that's that's very quotation I think we all agree that we have bit as high-performing birds we have a constant conflict between that inflammation and and it's a physical state that is not really normal but we have to live with it so it's like a constant inflammation which is there and we have to try to balance it and so it's not a pathological condition clinical but we have to steer it i we have to know the moment that information goes up we have to do something and that is something that we are looking for in fields to be able to judge when we have to do an additional treatment or not I think it's you have to anticipate tons you have reaches even anticipate yeah I think it's very well possible to do that but again even if you have inflammation in the gut of chickens it will be subtool and that is also a very critical thing the changes are not that that you just saw rly yeah find something in litter for example and if you have a subtle inflammation it's not easy taking into account and all these molecules that you're going to use as markers are really degraded already to some extent in fecal material you need something easier easy fast whatever so yeah but but next time I represent something that will be a big session on this next ECG and surely yeah any more come in from zo Tom's yeah so I had the presentation from better more and also so a couple of other presentations yeah so as Phillip mentioned right now so it's very easy to define the pathological conditions and then identify what's what's happening yeah so my question is like how to define a good gut health and if if we are looking into the functions of the microbes yeah so is it are these microbes change their functions depending on all these conditions so because because like even if we see so one of one of your slide showed that even the good performing frogs had different profiles of micro Beauty yeah I mean the microbes are going to be reacting to the environment as well you know we saw a talk where the valerik acid was down regulating a key virulence factor in clostridia so that's going to be happening to lots of genes across the whole population and you know to try and look at that we can do things like do the transcript omics but of course there's still a large number of genes in there that we have no idea what the function is anyway so we're always you're only playing with the things we know rather than all they are all the things that are in there but yes I mean the the organisms will certainly be reacting to their environment in particular reacting to metabolites that other organisms within that consortium of bacteria are making so yes it's it's not just here are the the bacteria this is what they make it's changing as well even with exactly the same population if there's there's different so far marks in there yes so finally we could say that we have not simplified the story we have opened more windows and I'm sure it's good for the scientists to see they have more years to to work on and so on but for the practical end-user we went we would love to have some unsoiled you know and some really good answers to move on and to use in the field so for that with that I would say I will close a roundtable except if someone want to add something agree well the only we've covered a lot here to this wee kid one thing we haven't really covered in this it seems to be a tremendous push in the United States now for the slower growing birds yeah that uh how is that going to be affected by you know what we're doing and changing yeah it's a good point because in Europe and particularly in France and we have already the slow green belt and if even the free rein burns and each Sooners are challenged when you talk about parasites when you talk about a micro biota and so on so I'm sure that we have open new windows for the fossil feature so I would like to thank the audience for your participation and your presence and our key keynote speakers and the song's organizer to give the opportunity to talk a little bit more on girls [Music]