we'll give this a try thank you very much it's a certainly a pleasure to be here today and pretty well what we're all talking about is trying to reach the our genetic growth potential of our birds in an environment where they we don't have antibiotics you can look on this slide and see that uh that from the beginning of the poultry industry in the 1920s actually to what we see here in 1950s to now today in 2017 we've made tremendous strides in genetics and in production and management and nutrition but how can we keep this going in an environment where we are removing antibiotics I can very easily in my research facility vaccinate chickens put them on litter give them a little cluster adding them around three weeks of age they're gonna break with necrotic inner itis the ones on the right-hand side and the ones that are on antibiotics on the left-hand side are walking around looking very nice and growing very efficiently while the ones on the right obviously are stressed having a heat a temperature trying to get stay cool obviously wet litter from splashing into the waters and everything else so again we've got to how do we get to this side from this side to this side in a never-ever antibiotic world and well the only way we can do that obviously is to control the two major diseases of poultry industry and that is the number one is coccidiosis which we've heard a good bit about in an excellent presentation just then but even more we've talked about at this meeting this course is the Clostridium induced necrotic enteritis surveys in the United States and I've saw surveys here from other people that the number one disease of course is coccidia followed by as closely related necrotic in our itis something that we all have to understand here is that all I'm area I don't care if you're in Asia or in South America or Russia or the United States or Canada or all the same and if we don't understand that we all have the same problems the same coccidia then we're not going to get anything out of this presentation we do all have the same clock city in the same situations and almost every chicken in the world has coccidia and we have to work on that obviously we can easily go in to a litter and pick up litter samples and just by oasis morphology we can determine what species are there and of course today there's a number of labs that can do PCR work the advantages PCR is obviously they can pick up all sorts of you know samples that we just didn't detect originally from just Oasis morphology the problem is it is a quantity it's not a quantitative measurement it's just a text coccidia so again you know which we would see the spray [ __ ] that we would have never seen just looking at Oh assist size tells us it's there but it doesn't tell us how much but we do know that amiri a serval ina is almost every farm a myriad Maximas in most farms and immediate Anela is quite often located and usually there's all three located on the same farm how come we can't get rid of coccidiosis they in Europe we know that they go through and we talked about biosecurity this morning and cleaning out houses and many things like this and in actuality they have more coccidia than they do in the United States where we have built up litter and that's certainly something we've all known for many years that it is cycles different in environment such as overly clean environment but one Oh assists just one Oh assists of a survey line of communities 400,000 assists of a survey Linna or twenty or seventy or tens of thousands of any of the other species so if we think about in an in a chicken house where we could have either dates 21 for example 30 to 40 or 50,000 Oh assistant just one handful of litter that we have trillions or 700 trillions to my interesting calculation in a poultry house and how can you possibly get rid of all that coccidia you cannot get rid of it it is there so what we have is a parasitic infection that no matter how much cleaning you're going to do is not going to get rid of it so we do have to control it in different ways there are as you saw a survey line of maximum sanella seven species of a Miria that infect chickens but there is a one that we're going to concentrate today on and that is a Miriam Maxima don't worry about the rest of them I know we have coccidiosis and they can cause production issues and but this is the one that we've got to decide to control it is a deep-tissue middle intestinal parasite affects absorption of nutrients of course but it also recycling and it will vary as we'll talk about later is related to cluster idiom proliferation though if leading cause and necrotic and or itis that the second part of this presentation covers quite often I'm asked to go to consulting in out of the country or in other places and I have this sort of a list of questions that I send out because I said that everybody has the same coccidia but we obviously don't all raise our chickens the same way that we don't do them in the United States all the same we certainly do not do them across the world and the same kind of production facilities so I kind of get this list and every one of these sent points on this list can influence coccygeal epidemiology and so I'm gonna just kind of go through right quick like this list of what is it really is important I would ask them of course what species they are and again I'm hoping that they don't say I'm near Maxima because they're probably going to also tell me they got necrotic inner itis issues so we find out what kind of species they first have what kind of problems they're having the size the market weight obviously a 35 day old chicken the epidemiology is not the same as a 70 or 60 day old chicken and because of the cycling and immunity we can vaccinate big birds and without much issues but can we get vaccinations for smaller birds in such a short period of time so it is important to know what they're growing a big bird a little bird in the southern United States we have four seasons and it definitely makes a difference what season it is a summer time we'll open up our houses keep it kind of fairly cool there's Lessing the litters drier but if we close it up in the wintertime and get a little more humidity more coccidia so that really dictates what anti coccygeal program we're using at what time of the year and we talked about housing is it open or closed you know I have a curtain sided house but most of them are our tunnel ventilated solid wall but there's obviously many places in the world that are open more than even the United States lighting programs again you would think lighting wouldn't be that big of an issue but anytime you turn those lights off those birds are not they're gonna sit down and not pick up litter for coccidia really cycle and immunity development they have to pick up coccidia from of the environment and so if you do it too early if it's too dark too low it's gonna in fear it's also a lot of the anti Cox evil drugs have to be in continuous application the Saline tamai since the INA force the only way that they work is that they by continuous we don't reabsorb that those products so it's a continuous consumption so whether they're off of that drug then they're not getting an aqaq serial activity so that is important poultry breeding bedding I mean and clean up and clean litter obviously that is critical as well as well as brooding many places in the world do not brood of course because of the environmental it's too warm or what are other conditions we do in the United States confine them you generally get early on and vaccinate them the coccidia cycles through the first cycle then we release them where they'll spread that coccidia throughout the whole house and that is ideally what we're looking for so we're trying to get them out confine them for about ten days because it is a seven-day lifecycle let him pick up some more coccidia and get them out before they get to the second cycle so that is ideally what we would do but what happens in places that do not have Brut don't brood or that have it other conditions so this is something we would have to discuss and more than likely we can work that out by thinking of stocking density and keeping them a little crowded more crowded at certain times and again that relates to the size of the birds in that how long they can cap obviously you can find them several play most of the companies in the United States office they have their own feed mills but there's a in Latin America some of the companies that I went to they did not they bought from a common source and they did not have the access of what anti caught cereal drug they use so again with these are important topics that we have to understand for coccidiosis control to to even understand so if anybody else wants a copy of this list for your own operations that would be fine in the United States controlling coccidiosis is generally of course done by anti Cox Eagle drugs and vaccinations and we only have 12 approved anti coccygeal drugs in the United States and this is a list of them here if you average the age of all of these together there are over 50 years old that is a very old products that we were relying on my [ __ ] seal drug our anti coccidia effect there are some other combinations of course around the world with others majora Meissen which we do not have in the United States there's combinations like maxi van with madura mice and Plus night carbon zine but generally speaking these are all that we have and we'll talk about there the ion of force later on in this presentation but there has been just because they're old and because of the usage of them resistance has been developed to each and every one of them it's very easy any place in the world probably to go in and isolate coccidia we run an aqaq serial sensitivity test for most of the poultry companies in the United States determine we run them against every one of those drugs that you just saw figure out which one is the most sensitive and we can perform help them decide which drug they can use and which is really important because even the sign of force which originally believed that they would not develop a resistance there is does some degree of decrease sensitivity to those as we can see here this is lesion scores the yellow is vaccine strains that are very very sensitive of course to any drug they were this is a Cox evac from Merck was isolated before any of the anti coccidia drugs in a very sensitive to chew them but you can see here that yes we are better than no anti coccygeal drug at all but not near as good as the original sensitivity so we have had a degradation even at the INA force and that's not particularly a good thing but we will see moving on again to to my list of a hat what kind of anti coccygeal drug program or what kind of program you can look at and this is a continuation of course of my list and again what we would think of is what program are you going to use are you going to use ace a chemical - Anaya for shuttle which is obviously a good one or anion afford to a chemical or a straight program they're there or how are you going to rotate them there's a lot of things that you go into play again sensitivity testing helps us understand which one to pick well stall time obviously is very critical if it's a big long time long exploration or grow out or for bigger birds sixty years plus if you pull it out at thirty five days that's two-and-a-half weeks or so without any medication what happens if there's not good strong immunity then it can actually change and have a problem and I've mentioned sativa T test one of the big problems in the United States is that because of a lawsuit against one from one poultry company to the other this US government court system determined that the IRS antibiotics the earth such as Salina my sandman ensign Harrison etc or antibiotics and they are antibiotics there's no doubt about it they're antibiotics but in most of the parts of the world they are considered an aqaq cereals and they are classified that and we're not worried with that but in the United States unfortunately we cannot use these whatever those five drugs and so we're down now to seven chemicals and they're even older in more resistance to those so we're really are in a shortage in the United States of anti coccidia drugs so what are we going to we go to the vaccination program with which horse vaccines are live coccidia we that it's a minister at day of age cycles through every seven days of course is what we're thinking and with each cycle as I'll show in a second immunity develops and we have a perfect conditions for protection why would we want to use them well one is we don't really have a choice there are no new anti coccygeal drugs being approved that are going to be federally approved in the United States or probably in most anywhere the world is anyone really developing a true chemical or a true synthetic or anion a for type product no resistance of course they to lever develops unlike it with a drug so that's a positive thing solemn unity against a serve Alana gets Maxima against Anela gets other species that might be in those vaccines so obviously a good thing less pathogenic than wild strains and that's something you also got to understand every vaccine is less pathogenic than wild strains we have in the United States most of ours or wild-type were isolated many many years ago but they are not at anyway they're not altered in any way for selected for a really lower pathogenicity don't believe it when they say oh you've got those pathogenic vaccines they are less pathogenic than though fill strains and the more you use them the more they're displacing the old wild strains and you will get less coccidia really infective coccidia by using a vaccine so it is a proven thing but at the same time you're also diluting that cuts that [ __ ] city population was sensitive strains at least was most of the vaccines that are out there again they were isolated before any anti coccygeal drugs were even developed that are on that list and so they are quite sensitive this is a displacement this is just taking a massive amount almost like a probiotic where you just flooding them with all this sensitive coccidia into placing the while the resistant wild strains so it's only a temporary stopgap form but it is a good thing so where this is important so but you can see again how generally life cycle goes there it is seven days of course I guess I said it was a seven day life cycle cycles two or three times we get a lot of a serving line on Maxima antonella particularly a survey line at Anela here and then it drops back off its immunity interesting you have this little peek of a mirror Maxima quite often with almost at least was several of the vaccines that we've looked at and in Peters own off so that that that is the advantages of vaccines but there are a lot of negatives also and we'll talk about those too but the in the United States this is a usage of vaccines in the United States and you can see obviously it is increased each and every year and it continues to increase each day every year that we're at the summer time when I said there was less coccidia there's probably seventy to eighty five percent of the unit the production in the United States are using vaccines but one of the things very interesting looking at this particular slide what is happening to those vaccines are they continued using a whole year obviously not they as again a seasonal you can't see this they've got to by by months this is the winter times each of one of these drop down is winter time they're shifting over to nigh karbas een which is a very very effective anti coccidia drug it's a chemical drug but it problem with it is that it is a product that causes a sort of a heat buildup in our chicken so you cannot really use it at its full use level in the summertime so we shift over to using it in the winter time and as with probably many of you in this audience and so it's been spared some of the resistance and I don't know that it develops resistance particularly quickly because it has been used for since 1970 when it was first approved but what does it tell you it tells you that people don't really don't love vaccines they don't always work so well we would rather use a good anti coccidia drug any day than we would want to use a vaccine and because they understand it they can put it in a feed mill it's going to work the way they want it to do while there's a very many variables with vaccines but again what do we going to do if we don't have the INA force we in in resistance to those drugs we're going to rely on the vaccines and as I just said how the vaccines work we give them at the day of age they cycles through them at seven days and then it we give them a small population forty hunt maybe a thousand Oh assist of three or four five species depends on which vaccine and then that shed spory lakes in a couple of days picks that up then we release them and it spreads across a chicken house and we have immunity development with each and every cycle that's stronger and stronger and then as obviously as it goes along immunity develops and we have protection and we can clearly easily go do this determine this by going in there and taking a subpopulation of those chickens and challenging them with coccidia and we can see even by two weeks of age we have a significant amount of coccidia immunity developing this is lesion scores this is two weeks versus a non-vaccinated in red this is our vaccinated in yellow and H every week it is stronger and that is the beauty again of it is that by 35 days you should have good solid immunity and you can raise these birds up for many many weeks because they all continue to be have some exposure to coccidia and immunity will always be there so this is a again a really is a good thing so you know and my list of uh we talked about drugs or are just coccidia epidemiology and the first one and then drugs and the second one so my more questions that I would ask this poultry company what vaccines do you have and as I mentioned there most of the ones in the United States are while stock strains but we do have an attenuated one the and but there are a number of attenuata ones across the the world predominantly the ones in Europe have been attenuated ones and what do I mean by attenuated is that it has been selected to be less pathogenic and by doing so they have removed one of the life stages and that life stage is the one that causes most of the lesions but what ends up happening is that yes it is less pathogenic but its reproductive capacity is greatly greatly diminished as well as its energetic capacity has been greatly diminished so people that say oh you we have to have attenuated ones doesn't necessarily mean such a great thing they are less pathogenic but we know that cycling and immunity development more than likely be faster with their typical wild strain type once administered is obviously by spraying on the birds at hatchery with a water-based one or a gel based or you know or in OVA jet injected in there at the hatchery so there are three different methods they certainly have their problems and they're good things about them if you think about the water-based ones that like this is that it evaporates very quickly in a very dry environment and do they have time to preen and pick up the coccidia off the birds versus that gel spray type or it's more of a liquid syrup type sprayed across and a channel as it goes across and again they pick it up a problem with it is that there's more of a mixing issue with it and storage issue next one is expiration date and store obviously storing it and is critical because it will die this is a live organism expiration date is something that I stress to no end to most everyone that they have to understand that this is a live package that you're giving to these birds and it will degrade it will die and early on in this back in 1985 when I first started out one of the major vaccine companies originally said that the storage of it was only six to eight months well if you look at a lot of them now they say that's two months two years expiration date and I really think this is you know a somewhat critical to why you may not think your vaccines are working is that say you're buying a product from the United States by the time it gets to Korea or Taiwan or most anywhere then that's been at least two or three months of time of shipping a production doing through the potency testing getting it over here they may run another potency test when it's here but again each and every time it's degrading degrading and you have a really a fresh product as you really would and it would go away very quickly in the United States a company that had never used a vaccine before thought of it as a commodity just like buying a drug they bought a whole supply of drugs to put in their feed mill well they bought a whole supply of vaccine worked beautifully beginning with by the time it got to the fall late in several but six to eight months later they were having problems and I could look at it night because they go out it looks fine to me but in actuality hilux expiration date you could tell that they were getting closer and closer and that was really what their problem was that they overbought and their supply was getting old because coccidia them those a Miria Maxima that i talked about earlier are big big o assist and they take a powerful amount of energy for them to survive and those will degrade the fastest of all of those so again our Maxima is our number one Colorado and it's a number one that's going to be going down in your vaccine we talked about brooding and litter already and I'll talk about hybrid brother hybrid programs in a second and feel boosting fill boosting in the United States has it's really starting to catch on that is where we take that vaccine go back out there at three to five days spray it on the on the feed pans and what does that do that really gives them a second dose of this because they obviously the methods that we have they aren't a hundred percent coverage if we could go through and orally and oculi TEVAR chicken of every vaccine in the world would work perfectly but that is not how it happens they don't all get a full coverage so Phil boosting particularly with the attenuated ones seems to be a helpful thing in the United States this is uh OSU shedding patterns we've done a lot of epidemiologic work this was something I did was a masters or a PhD work and again we can see the same thing here as the vaccine is here the green is just a straight honor for such as Salina my Center koban and you can see that how it works is by direct activity against the coccidia as well as immunity development and so it pulls along and doesn't get the same peak but it is pushed out further and further another interesting thing is another type program is a chemical - I know for program what if you were on my car buzina say it was a great drug well it kills off all the coccidia you get very little immunity development because the coxey's not cycling and then you're shifting over to a 904 and you can see how what would happen here is it goes up well what happens if that ina 4 doesn't work or what happens if you shift over to another chemical that resistance is it could very well go very high and get into this growth curve that you really as critical as we'll see in the next slide and that uh that early coccidia is better than late coccidia and it was proven by a dr. Bob Teeter at the University of Oklahoma and this is a slide from a vaccine company puts this out because this really makes a good sells for vaccines over drug program and what you can see is they gave a very low infection and at two weeks of age the same level of infection they these birds lost about nine grams of a weight per day while at six weeks they were somewhere around 40 grams the same level of infection in both times so again it demonstrates that it's you're gonna have coccidia no doubt about it the best time to have it is early get it in get it out get it immunity development and you're better off than having it this way but again as this presentation or this whole week has gone we're not just talking about coccidia because yes we have problems but the most problems that we have is its relationship with bacterial populations particularly the cluster idioms necrotic you know right us of course we've all covered this it's caused by Clostridium proliferation leading the toxin production there's a number of factors that predisposing factors that have been discussed cluster idiom this can be found almost anywhere it comes in the chicks and chick boxes hatcheries dust insects birds again you can cannot really get rid of Clostridium any more than you can get rid of coccidia so there is a really an issue of that there was a discussion this question this morning of a lesion scoring for necrotic inner itis and there are a number of scoring systems across the world a zero to ten zero to five zero two three that we've used for many many years and it's just have to understand how they go it's very somewhat fairly simple for us this is this normal this is a wine this is two this is a three I think if you threw out a four that would have a lot of blood and a lot of mucus and it would be almost a dead bird so it'd be very easy to separate them into you know four or five scoring system and but you know that that just watch out for you know when you're reading the literature to see what their scoring system that they used work that we've done and a number of people have done this over times but we infected birds directly what single species of coccidia then gave them the Clostridium and as I said earlier a Miriam Maxima is our problem and we can see from right here that this is 50% of these birds that we infected have died from necrotic and Rytas we can do it with just you serve Ilana I can do it with indicators I can do it but Nettie you cannot do it with praecox you can give them a kill them with janela and give them Clostridium and they will not develop necrotic enteritis so that is not the problem the problem is Ameria maxima again this is the one we got to worry with dr. Chuck a faker worked with some field who works with me very closely works with the fisa field production people and came up with a survey again and in vaccinated Birds most of the time that he sees necrotic enteritis is around 16 days of age earliest was 11 oldest was at 4 weeks and again there's this risk factor that if you want to discuss it sometime about cleaned out versus used litter is a difference and getting on to again the never ever antibiotic free issue that we saw or we've been discussing all this week and that chick-fil-a is the largest consumer or a purchaser a poultry in the United States and they scam out and of course stated that they do not want to buy any poultry or chicken or serve poultry that has had been fed in antibiotic McDonald's said the same thing for a number of years but then they restated it to saying that they will sourcing chickens race without antibiotics there but they are that are not imported or are important to human medicine so obviously the INA force came into play the problem with this is that it's really as confusing as someone's heart confusing for me that just said that and that how would you put that on a package that a consumer would actually understand so in actuality more people in the united states if you say you're never ever antibiotic you still cannot use these and these ina fours so we are very very limited and again what can we do and pretty well we can do the things that have been discussed this week and I can give a presentation on each one of these powerpoints and have given 100 most of these powerpoints it but we've covered a lot of that and this afternoon we've got two for three or four more presentations on necrotic enteritis so I'm not going to really get into those and they're going to cover some of them but very easily we can look at diets minerals is very interesting we've run a lot of studies with it prebiotics these plant extracts have been covered and talked about a lot of work has been presented already on butyric acid and organic acids probiotics but again it all comes to coccidia and the interactions and I can guarantee that the only way that you're going to get any of this to work is by a combination of all of these is pretty well what they say is how it's going to work poultry science association meeting in 2016 in New Orleans we had a symposium on antibiotic free production and headed most of the or several of the large poultry companies come and and give the talk about what their concerns were or how they would decide which product they were going to take and pretty well they said that they wanted to have proven results off that which is obvious in it it's good for me because it's a research they want to have it and I have a research company so that I was happy with that but they also wanted to make sure that they can take it to the field at work the second thing that they really wanted to understand was mode of action obviously there's more some very intelligent people that are understanding and we had some good presentations on mode of actions of several of these products already and again we'll have some more this afternoon very very important no one interferes with other programs how do they interfere with the can you use an antibiotic with a probiotic and use an acid with a probiotic can you use an essential oil with your vaccine so there are a lot of interactions that you got to understand and obviously a guaranteed supply of your products and we'll talk a little about that and of course in actuality there ended up saying of course the return on the investment but I can tell you that right now they are more interested in actually getting these birds and never ever antibiotic has cost them less to use almost any kind of program then it actually to fail and have to move those birds in to treat them move them into a different category sentimental processing plant they have to find a new source for them so this is really as critical that they do not get into that situation I as I said you know and it's Martin pointed out that I have a research company in the in southern United States and we can run battery and floor fence studies we run several of them many many of them a year right now I when we left we had five of necrotic enteritis studies to coccidia studies and a couple of nutrition studies and the day before I left I was posting birds for a product for a necrotic inner itis so we are continually looking for that that silver bullet but we haven't completely found it but we have found that we have can change the population we can't improve it by looking at these products and so I'll go a little through some of them as we go along as I mentioned one of the things that we can do is a thing called a bio Shuttle a hybrid program this really actually was started in Mexico when the with a different vaccine that they would came out with it and it was actually sold from a company that produced a drug introduced a vaccine at the same time and so they came in and came up with this idea but what it is is that as this is our cycling program again you come with a low level anti coccidia l-- you're really trying to manipulate or modulate this particular time of the heavy infection when you're really getting a lot of damage the Clostridium is going to perforate and you're trying to get rid of it at this point so if you can kind of push this down modulate it with a low drug then you're a good thing I did have this slide up originally had chemicals on here but if I thought about it again most of the unit most of the world can use the honor for as Anna coccidia 'ls so it's even better with Ina force so if you put Salina mice and say at 40 parts per million instead of 60s part 66 parts per million or a full level it's going to modulate the [ __ ] City at a lower time then in a study that we did we put Ava Tech in later on it just to keep the arrest of the [ __ ] C down and so a tremendous improvement the question was well is this an Anna [ __ ] serial effector is this an antibiotic effect and we don't really know and I don't really care I think it's a combination of both there is a good bit of aunt crow bial activity with these honor fors these are really good products even if they're not fully sensitive so don't believe that when somebody says in these hybrid program you're gonna kill all the [ __ ] you're not gonna kill it all off not at those low levels even though the strains are very sensitive so this is actually a fairly common method of using vaccines or introduction to vaccines in the United States you will discover that most companies that do do this they'll use it for about a year yet understand how these vaccines are working how to apply them more efficiently and they'll start going away from using this combination but it really is a nice way of introducing yourself into how to get vaccines and has some little safeguards at the same time obviously it costs more and it interferes with that replacement of sensitivity that I talked discussed earlier but it has a pretty good theme I know this is a little I presume this is a little difficult know it's not too bad hard to see this is a generally a diet for a u.s. diet and we do some things we were lucky to do some things right in that they are a corn soy diets which are obviously easily digestible they're not a viscous grain like barley rye and wheat and wheat but we do or have in the past use a lot of distillers we don't use it as much now because of its a low oil but it's a very high fiber product again leading to fermentation and in that which can change the pH favorably to Clostridium what else do we have on here there's some research showing that high levels of will the meat and bone meal for example can have high levels of Clostridium coming in obviously a most of these are highly digestible there's some research showing that calcium levels high calcium levels are related to higher incidence of necrotic enteritis and let's see what else we have on here available zinc will talk about zinc in the next presentation and other minerals vitamin e more readily develop well there's a whole army of presentations at at the last poultry science own super dosing the fight ace and what the effects of super dosing the fight ace has on pH has on calcium absorption and release and that maybe you can buy super dosing them that you can use less calcium and changes the uptake in in that relationship to necrotic enteritis and of course the NSP enzymes we had good presentation on that yesterday and that the advantages of using those as far as reducing the innit obviously the NSP and nutrient uptake and reducing viscosity all of those just simple enough just to manipulate the diet can make so much difference in your control of coccidiosis and I mean in karate can write us and I'm not going to cover this particularly fat to too much because we've covered it already but one of the first things that we talked about or was research was the prebiotics which of course are not digestible ingredients that stimulate the growth of beneficial bacteria and so this is certainly a we understand how it works it's been around tested for many years it came on the market in 1993 many many studies looking at a bacterial adhesion in type 1 3 brutal blockers as well as modulating Fermi and using layers so we pretty well know how the mosses work and and obviously we can look at many many studies that we've done but this one just I just picked some representative samples this was a vaccine study which we put the asset racing in at 50 grams per ton or 55 parts per million put my inaros akka right in and looked at a performance and we can see yes we did improve performance with our manual gold saccharide was it as good as the antibiotic well in it it's not unexpected it was not as good as an antibiotic but it was certainly very as sufficiently better than just the straight vaccine itself and if you don't have a obviously bacitracin or an antibiotic then this is an option in a challenge type study this was a battery steady about 18 percent mortality and our challenge controls and down significantly lowere with our moss and even more so with the BMD so again we can see that yes it does reduce it in different ways so that's pretty predictable and there's a number of companies that have come out with that particular product probiotics in the United States almost every company in the United States is using a probiotic of one sort or another that includes the layer industry as well as the turkey industry are all using probiotics I think they understand how they work they the cells of them have been you know cells people and the tech service people for the probiotic in industry has been tremendous and in informing these people that producers how to use them and and we've heard a lot about those obviously a compensatory gain in antibacterial substances in means response as well as short chain fatty-acids so we really won't go into detail with this but yes again in the United States it is probably the number one product that's being used for control some of the first studies back in the early 80s we've looked at more of a lactobacillus or water-soluble giving it at day of age and was very very effective but they wanted a obviously a more resilient product and they came and obviously they came up with the bacillus types of probiotics and there are a number of those many many of them but though two that we study the most are the subtilis and Alicia formas the subtilis of course has a high growth rate Alicia formas has a higher m.i.c against Clostridium the use of the single or combination but it's amazing how many there are in the world and so they come to me and ask me you know which one of these are better and I say well I go with the ones that's got the most research in that it has a good texture vez and everything behind it but again the thing that you really have to watch out for is the dose of it because they may say give it a nice cheap price but it's not the same product as the ones that are just be careful about what kind of probiotic you're buying one of the first bits of work that we did with them we didn't even understand back the number of years ago that you could use a probiotic with an anaphora you could use a probiotic with an antibiotic so the some of that work had to be done and as you can see here yes there was no interference this was with Salina Meissen this is little Meissen with a BMD atom significant improvement but if you add the subtilis to these three way here you have the best feed conversion valishia pharmacist was not a challenge study so it was not surprising we didn't get a big big response there but again it shows that yes there is advantages of using these and there's no problem in the combination a lot of conversation this that in the last day or today on organic acids particularly including the battery acid type products which i'm not going to go to too much in again they work by cell permeability and pH changes and obviously leading to the death and change of bacteria five more minutes and I'm getting close not really but so fill trials with this particular products we can show that you know that we can reduce this is a water-soluble water-based one and we can reduce Salmonella in the crops as well as in the Sica with this type product butyric acid we've gone through everybody's you know several times in this presentation and again it's it is a very very important to understand that it has to be encapsulated and our ester form to be active down lower in the intestinal tract and we've done many many studies with looking at it and let's see if we can get on and that again mostly I use this particular slide to irradiate or to tell people that in the United States or whatever the poultry producers if somebody comes in with a new Chiriqui acid or an S or essential oil and it's encapsulated if they don't understand their capsulation process then don't listen to them because they should understand there are a number of ways of in capitulate encapsulations and all of them imported moving on in again will keep moving Martin is in - we're going into the most some of the most most important parts of the essential oils they do have really are very interesting and they have antimicrobial and anti caca city or protozoal activity but they can also stimulate the secretion of enzymes and we don't even you know something we don't even really think about is the secretion of enzymes why would that be important well without enzymes coccidia will not exist you may improve your vaccination because you're getting the coccidia to develop quicker and so there are certainly advantages the tannins I think there was a presentation yesterday afternoon on Canon's and these other plant extracts but again lowering lesions OSS counts and I want to make sure that we all understand that there are a number of sources are they encapsulated and are they safe is probably the big thing that well whatever uh what mostly I want to make sure is again they don't interfere with something and I don't want them interfere with my coccygeal vaccine in this particular case a number of years ago there was a vaccine the attenuated one that was being used very successfully then again it failed we looked into it what was happening was that the nutritionist came in and put a really powerful oregano type product and it was killing off the vaccine and as you can see here we do or do Silesians from a survey lino I mean to nella and Maxima and so we suggest you do not use it in with their vaccine at least this product is no longer on the market but they are products on the market that are oregano Xining cetera and we can see that yes they will improve did not interfere with immunity development because we took a subpopulation and challenged them 2001 I'm sorry Martin I'm still going thus opponents in 2001 I wrote an article for world poultry called what did I call it a new organic anarchic sitio can safely be used in feeds well it was kind of interesting that this company that I did this for did not want to produce it or run it in the United States hit one and use it in Europe they only wanted to use it where they could get it easily registered so you their intention was that it was not going to be a standalone program and it's really isn't a standalone Anna coccygeal and you shouldn't be that way one of them is comes from a yucca extract the steroid Owens another one comes from a kaya tree a tri terpenoid first thing we saw was ammonia reduction but then they all of a sudden saw that they were getting less coccidia less australium and this and investigated the stability of the parasite so very interesting I got two more three more slides three more but this one really is important because we used to have a protocol three nitro Wizards are cynical and it uh they pulled it from the market again when they start pulling other things because they didn't want our sneak in the feed and we had to struggle to find something really quick and of course the steroidal saponins was very similar fare to the three nitro not quite as good again but it was very good and we can a lot of studies we run with this try turpenoid thirty to forty to fifty percent reduction and OSS production so yes it is a good product that it doesn't not standalone by itself and finally there's comp there are many many combinations and we heard about a combination this morning from from the della con presentation and we can see yucca extracts minerals etc all these a yucca extract a mineral essential oil in a man and okra saccharide back in 2005 we did this study so improve vaccination and again what would you possibly do with it if you don't have an ana force you can just use it as again modulating putting this moss in here to keep your bacterial population in check and it works very nicely so again you know just in summary antibiotics free production and never ever when is is ideal for consumers they do like it but is it or any of these products really truly an aqaq steel drugs they are not and and they never will be but they are a good advantage in they're mostly used for support of vaccination lastly if you're ever in the southern the united states come see me there's a ha tremendous concentration of poultry and obviously a consentration of a poultry specialist and we'd be certainly very happy to have you there and the last one i that will show because we talked about my dogs is that i train my chickens to train dogs to do obedience and so if we can train dogs and chickens we can certainly all train ourselves so with that I am going to close my presentation [Music]